00:03.13 archpodnet Welcome to a life ruins podcast where investigate the careers of those living life in ruins I'm hosts carltic go and I'm joined by my co-host David John David David John that's wrong David I'm here with David David Dean and Howe. 00:15.70 Jesus of Nayarit Um, John in the fully white one is not here. 00:21.38 archpodnet Just me and David today just the 2 of us just broing it out for this lovely lovely episode one thirty um David when was the last time and you were on the show together. 00:30.00 Jesus of Nayarit Um, um, you know I kind of don't listen to them when they come out so I don't remember I was at hang on think I was at my parents place in that little inween time. 00:49.38 archpodnet Dude your mic is coming in Super super super low. Yeah I don't know what you touched. But now it's great. 00:58.25 Jesus of Nayarit Um, super low. Okay me fix this. What about now? Okay dude. Okay so I have the dial the obviously Chris cut this out the dial goes from 1 to 10 and I have it at like 99.999 but if I go any lower than that you can't hear me chinese pieces shit. 01:11.72 archpodnet Pretty much. Yeah, that's how it you know I don't you know? Yeah anyways, so no holy okay. 01:22.34 Jesus of Nayarit I'm a 1 China guy i'm. 01:28.29 archpodnet So the last time we recorded together I think was was it in july. 01:34.71 Jesus of Nayarit Um, probably dude who did we interview if if I can pull up the names of the episodes I can hear here stall for a minute talk about talk about stuff and I will find this out. 01:35.95 archpodnet I I don't recall man. 01:47.45 archpodnet Yeah I'll talk about stuff. Um, it's been a while since I've been on the podcast. Well yes, that's not true. We recorded I record a chance he came out I'm not chance the rapper chance the lakota. Um I have no idea what just what? what we're doing at this point. But. 01:56.83 Jesus of Nayarit Artist of. 02:03.68 archpodnet Excited to be back on the show and we're actually gonna I guess do a little bit of catching up with word. So yeah August it's been like six seven weeks 02:04.32 Jesus of Nayarit Um, Georgia butcher my goodness. 02:15.94 Jesus of Nayarit Um, yeah, we've we've had a busy suburb you and I. 02:16.76 archpodnet Yeah I think and so is Connor I think the 3 of us finally hit that point of do we do we do this setting more because we got really drunk at craves wedding when the 3 of us were together last and had to have that conversation of like what are we doing. 02:27.92 Jesus of Nayarit Um. 02:33.59 Jesus of Nayarit Everyone was like hey wait you didn't help clean up the wedding. What were you doing I was like we're talking podcasts they're like is the band breaking up and then I talked to a few people about it around wyoming they're like dude I go to Wyoming because of this podcast shout out Jacob Bardsen and I was like oh shit. 02:35.22 archpodnet At this moment. 02:53.30 Jesus of Nayarit Right? Like we do good work. We've got to keep doing that's. 02:56.27 archpodnet Yeah I think it's just I mean we've been doing this for almost to we started this in 2019 so yeah like three years ago yeah pre pandemic we've been doing this for 3 years and but just this this was the summer where we were just all you you have the traveling van. 03:05.90 Jesus of Nayarit Um, re pandemic. Yeah. 03:14.44 archpodnet Got a job in Wyoming I moved states again and trying to trying to do my own big boy job. 03:24.30 Jesus of Nayarit You know what's fun. Um, having a master's degree and being permitted in these two states out here Wyoming in Colorado and getting constant calls hey can you join this project and being like fine. Are you gonna pay me. And then I'm pittting two pig dealers against each other see who will pay me more and then I run into Dr Devin Pedigrew out in the field who is supposed to take I'm supposed to take pictures bulldozers doing arche like cutting through grass. So I can tell ah confirm. There's no archeology. And then Dr Pedigrew comes and takes pictures of me to confirm that I am taking pictures of bull who's confirming this new archeology and the man has a doctorate and also was poached by this job and they were like this is how much money will pay you and he was like I'm in so we're out here for those of you who don't know monitoring is just that. 03:59.50 archpodnet But. 04:14.22 Jesus of Nayarit Bulldozers and cranes and excavators dig holes and an archaeologist and a paleontologist have to sit there and make sure no artifacts or fossils come out riveting I'm sure you did probably Tod Surreville and Bob Kelly themselves go ahead did for this job. 04:22.36 archpodnet So I got head hunted for that job too. I got a call I got a call from a message on Linkedin like hey we have this exciting opportunity. 04:32.52 Jesus of Nayarit Um. 04:34.99 Jesus of Nayarit Um, yeah, yes, no. 04:37.77 archpodnet And I thought I was talking to like an archeologist now I was talking to a head hunter and I was like I have a tenure track position like can you compete with that like I think we can arrange something was like okay I'm listening talked to on the phone I was like so this is what I'm making this is how long my contracts for and like yeah, we just we just you know we can't compete with that and I was like yeah. 04:52.99 Jesus of Nayarit Um, yeah. 04:56.60 archpodnet Because they wanted me to like drive out from bloomington they weren't going to relocate me, they're like you want to work in Wyoming I'm like I live in Indiana now like we we pay for travel. It's like it's two days to get out there fuck you. 05:03.57 Jesus of Nayarit Um, and that's that's what they do man that those big hiring agencies like I think it was act talent headhunted me and like or no the company itself. I Can't name the name but then an actal which I don't care about naming the name because they literally tried to mob boss me into this job and I was like hey I'm actually working with this company because they're going to pay me more and they offer me more and they were like oh what is their Name. We'll shoot them an email and then they shot them an email and then I was like yeah you're going to pay me more and then they still didn't pay me more. And then they were like it would be very wise of you to take this job and I was like are you threatening me like what the fuck and they were like you'll burn many bridges out here and I was like I don't care I'm going with the company that I like and Like. It's just so weird man all those big like these projects really need to get done. 05:55.24 archpodnet Yeah, and it's a you know it's it's one of those I've been thinking about serum a lot recently not because I want to get back into it because the new program I'm in like Indiana doesn't have a masters. They don't offer masters you like get it along the way. And there's really no crm focus like at Wyoming there was Rick's Rick Weatherman crm lab like you learned methods but like in my program at the moment. No one's really teaching methods they teach like fun things. Don't get me wrong, but in terms of the applicability of some of the courses that you learned through your phg program here. Don't translate well to. 06:32.80 Jesus of Nayarit Chip. 06:32.90 archpodnet Culture resources management and so we had to have like some fun conversations these past couple weeks of like can we think about doing a master's program because some students will enroll in the Ph D and then they'll pass their qualifying exams which gets them their masters and then they just leave. So There's no thesis involved. They just have to answer a couple questions and then they're out and it's like okay now what can you do and with an archeology masters without a thesis or without fieldwork. It's it's It's a different landscape than when I think this program that I'm in now was founded. 07:07.32 Jesus of Nayarit Um, yeah, yeah. 07:07.65 archpodnet Ah, hundred years ago you know like this is a very old warfields department and I think it's reflected in some of those ways. So we're trying to work out because Alex Craig's gonna be moving out here to start a serum job out in Kentucky so me and him were're talking about the possibility of me sending students in the program in Indiana. To do summer sea around with crabe's company. 07:30.20 Jesus of Nayarit Good yeah and again for the audience listening like again we stress this all the time you don't have to be a professor There are so many job opportunities. Ah in anthropology where having a ph d might overqualify you. I'm sure Devin is paid a little more than me. He's working for a different company because he has a ph d but like I can guarantee you it's $3 more an hour and like. 07:51.58 archpodnet Yeah, no, don't get a ph d not in this field I mean there's right now we have 5 maybe 6 job openings for ph d archeologists six so and all you can do with the ph d and archeology is teach you you don't you don't need one I'm sorry and don't think. 08:09.70 Jesus of Nayarit Um, yeah, unless you're viny. 08:11.58 archpodnet And I see like a lot of folks like well I'll just work in a museum and it's like wait a moment and like David me and you both worked in museums are curators. It's like you can't just work in a fucking museum if you have a ph d in archeology you need curatorial training or like a background or like you actually have to have worked and gained experience in a museum to work in a museum. 08:23.10 Jesus of Nayarit Yeah, and they're usually federal or state jobs in which you have to like have previous federal and state experience and have a federal resume getting all those things and which you get through CR m 08:38.35 archpodnet Yeah, it's just one of those yeah but like don't think just because you have a ph d that opens you up like as David said you'll work. You'll be overeducated for most jobs just get a masters like get the 2 and you know. 08:41.33 Jesus of Nayarit Well, that's that's not always the case I mean obviously you know that too but it just depends. Yeah. 08:55.42 Jesus of Nayarit Um, no. 08:58.12 archpodnet If they want you to get a Ph D a lot of companies will pay for it. So. 09:03.60 Jesus of Nayarit Yeah, um, but again, if you if you want a ph d and there's questions that keep you up at night and you're like I want to fight with my very intelligent colleagues for 3 jobs that are open even though there's 17 of us go for it like. 09:16.81 archpodnet Yeah, yeah, just think of the hundreds of archeologists that didn't get the 6 jobs last year they're also in the job market for the 6 jobs that are open this year so yeah don't get a ph d folks. 09:19.39 Jesus of Nayarit You can do it. 09:28.26 Jesus of Nayarit And they're working with me ah in a month or two I will be in charge of few. 09:38.72 archpodnet Ah. 09:41.50 Jesus of Nayarit Anyway, we're not pessimistic about the field in any regard. Um, love archeology which is why today we're going to talk about middle earth. 09:45.15 archpodnet We're just you're just realistic about yeah it yes, that's a fantastic seway. so ah yeah so I I've been watching and David so have you, we've been watching um, wear of the ring. 10:00.63 Jesus of Nayarit Um, rings of power you plebe war of the ring is an Xbox 3 60 game. 10:01.82 archpodnet That one but it's based on the war of the ring. That's so good. Not really, it's kind of garbage but been watching rings of power on the Amazon Tv show I'm liking it so far man how about you. 10:17.63 Jesus of Nayarit Um I like it and also if you guys are like I'm going to tune out now. Don't turn out because this will be It'll be worth your time. Ah yeah, dude like a lot of people are hating on it. Um I like it. Let's address the race thing I see that I don't see anybody complaining that it's. Race thing I see people complaining that people are complaining about it being a race thing and I haven't seen 1 person be like I don't want black hobbits um like I've seen I'll say like people are saying they don't want black hobbs. They're making that up I haven't seen 1 person who said that and let's talk about that real quick I was thinking about it. Obviously tolen wrote that there's fair scanned elves like there. It's obviously he's talking about white people but like what is the issue with just casting black actors and hispanic actors and asian actors to play like extras in the background or main characters like. Obviously in Middle Earth it would you could maybe assume that they came from the southlands or out east or something and that's why they're there which might be confusing but also like you can just have various people play roles. It doesn't matter. 11:21.63 archpodnet Yeah I agree I don't um and I kind of mirror that sound to it. Maybe it's just because me and you have like very curated communities on social media. But I've kind of seen the same thing I haven't directly seen anyone complain about race. But I have seen articles that are like people are saying. That it's about Race. So I kind of. 11:39.41 Jesus of Nayarit Yeah I think it's all bullshit like ah like most things I don't see anybody actually complain I have seen people say it's too woke. Um, which might be referring to that. But um. If having a strong female character that we've known for Middle Earth for years is wokeness then like riddle me conservative I I mean rid will be democratic I don't know. 12:04.24 archpodnet Ah, yeah, but ah, kind of the whole the whole what I enjoyed about this series is that it takes place before it's yeah before the war of the ring which you know. Sam and Frodo Takeck the ring to Mordor and like the it's prior to the hobbit the book and the lord of the rings trilogy. Yeah so and what's fascinating to me because I was like reading this article which had my had my ah gears turning in monnagan is that. 12:22.58 Jesus of Nayarit It's the second age. Yeah. 12:34.11 archpodnet Ah, those living in the third age are living in a dystopian future where like events of the second age that was like you had numenor and you had like the grandioseness of of the elves and of um of men. 12:36.14 Jesus of Nayarit Um, okay. 12:49.73 archpodnet And all that's gone by the third age and like when you like you watch the hobbit and and these other movies hobbit um twin towers and um, return to the king the 2 towers fuck all right fee. 13:00.45 Jesus of Nayarit Um, the 20 towers. 13:05.52 Jesus of Nayarit It's okay hard I p um. 13:08.43 archpodnet I mean it's just the twenty Twenty first anniversary not telling ago. But um, there's all this decay and um, you know, rubble all over the place and when you watch return to the king they talk about how even ministereth is in downfall or like it's in decline the leaves of like the the tree the white tree of Gondor hasn't bloomed and god knows how long. Um, and so there are these people are living in a dystopian future in which like the height of their cultures was in the past during the second age and it's kind of that longing to get back to it and so you know even like when you watch um the fellowship when after Frodo's been stabbed by a Nos school. Ah. You know they're in the ah the but well they got he got stabbed in the room zamanzul. But then they're like taking refuge with um aorn but underneath the stoned trolls from the hobbit. 13:48.40 Jesus of Nayarit Um, the ruins of ammetsul. 13:57.87 Jesus of Nayarit The. 14:04.81 Jesus of Nayarit Um, of right. 14:06.68 archpodnet Yeah, and so like I wonder at that point if in the third age there are any like Middle Earth archaeologists running around because I mean there's like literate and educated people and I'll be curious because they have all these libraries that talk about all these fantastic things. 14:24.91 Jesus of Nayarit Um. 14:26.50 archpodnet Like and they see remnants of these past cultures. You know what do they think of them and if there's anyone actually like trying to check things out. 14:36.56 Jesus of Nayarit Yeah I guess for context, the first age is like with creation second age is where the rings of power takes place which is you know dealing with the aftermath of Melcor and Morgoth um and sauron having taken over his saen was his um, so. Melcor was a fallen angel like. 15:00.18 Jesus of Nayarit And Middle Earth got a lot of power and sauron is a maya just like gandal for armana ratag guest or Bell Rugs they're like an angel type creature. Um, anyway, yes, we are living in that aftermath in in that. In this series been in the third age too. You pointed out but an interesting thing you mentioned is like are there archaeology or archeologists going on. We see it in the fellowship and even in the book too gandallf rides to um atthiian or aminus terreth to. Read the art like the the scrolls kind of like a library of Alexandria type situation about Ailildur in his diaries and like trying to find out more about the ring. Um, and like there's men have those books because men don't live long if you're new minorian you live like a couple hundred years. Um, but you die elves live forever mortal men live regular lifespans like we do. Um so you would have had newminors like eorn um or ah. 15:57.72 archpodnet Yep. 16:03.83 Jesus of Nayarit Elves who were alive at the time of a lot of these events so they would have known like what was going on. They don't necessarily need archaeologists but that's an interesting point like men need that they need those accounts and they need those scrolls to know what was going on. Interesting. 16:23.39 archpodnet Yeah I mean that's absolutely isn't um egorn is dunainene right? So like Gond dorians come from new menor after the fall and they're the what are they called. 16:37.76 archpodnet Because there's like 2 factions of the new menor you get the black new menorans that are hanging out in the south on the coast and then you have like that now they're not called the faithful what the hell are they called the ones that stay true to the elves. Yeah. 16:38.20 Jesus of Nayarit Um, um. 16:47.95 Jesus of Nayarit The faithful are what aorn's people were yeah like the neworianss that came over then they make Gondor and arnor um, and yeah, there's like men that sight so sauron goes to nu menor. Um. And convinces the men to make the rings. Um and also convinces new meno to like be evil and the ones that aren't evil that side with the yeves are given long life um or gifted longer life and they don't drown in the the destruction of New Menor and that's when egorn and. 17:23.10 archpodnet A steelalor is yeah and has been at El Seodor's brother because it's the dad who settles arnor and then the sealledor and his brother settle gondor minna tieth and minnace I think it's called minnace morgel by the. 17:23.46 Jesus of Nayarit Or a seal door and Ln deal come over? yeah. 17:41.70 Jesus of Nayarit Um, very good. Yes, mean as which is then taken over by Siron and New Yorks Of course. 17:42.18 archpodnet Yes, but then it becomes mins morgal but it had a different name before that it was like minnace something else. 17:51.30 Jesus of Nayarit Oh um I think I think it was as mean as more no you, you might be right changes but the word you were looking for before I think was Dunnedyne and donayne are just like not exiled p numinoran rangers. But it's like a faction of rangers that protect middleear and like scout things. 17:57.18 archpodnet Yeah. 18:07.55 archpodnet Like particularly like arnor like I think like the gidine rangers are in the north right? As arnor falls to the Witch king. 18:09.14 Jesus of Nayarit So like they were hunting for column. 18:16.26 Jesus of Nayarit Yes, it does um and Arnor is where the shire is technically in the remnants of arnor. So the rangers kind of protect the hobbits in that area. Yeah, um, this was great Archeology talk. 18:22.31 archpodnet Yes. 18:32.43 archpodnet What we had it. We have to set up the background. But yeah, we'll get into the archeology here in a bit. We'll be right back with episode one thirty of lifehood ruins and archeology middle earth here after these messages. 18:33.41 Jesus of Nayarit Next segment.