00:00.00 archpodnet And we're back still here with Daniel Fripp said one thirty five so just kind of starting off something that I'm sure you've noticed and I've and I've seen like there's that there's a really great Russell Peters I know he's an older comedian at this point but there's a bit where he talks about he sees this like white dude in the audience with this like japanese style dragon tattoo sleeve and he starts ragging on the guy. He's like wait are you from Japan and the guy's like no and he and he's like well why do you have that tattoo so in the world of of art and and. Tattooing art like what is that discourse like because you've mentioned in the in the first part that you do like a lot of like european style tattoos now specifically like scandinavian influenced on. Um I imagine the new zealanders with european descent. Um. So how do you navigate that space of like where art is such this ubiquitous thing where people can appreciate and admire from all backgrounds of life and want to have it displayed on their bodies even though they might not be from the culture. In which those art forms are produced and. 01:15.12 Daniel Riday Um, um, it's ah it's a big question. Um, the tattoo world is really in a lot of ways on the the front line of battles surrounding cultural appropriation and. Unfortunately, it's become so easy to become a tattoo artist that without ah a teacher to kind of guide you through this means this this is the history behind that this comes from here and answering a lot of those kinds of questions a lot of people just kind of jump into drawing and tattooing without. Understanding and it leads to a lot of problems cultural appropriation is ah is a huge issue in the tattoo world and um, there's been some instances where really just good people I Know. Didn't realize that maybe they shouldn't have been doing something with their art and then reminding them that like hey maybe have another thing about that and they go Oh yeah, actually yeah, a good point I didn't think about it and I think a lot of the time it just comes down to the fact that they're trying to do art to support I mean is there. It's their life. That's how they pay the bills you know and ah taking the time to kind of dive in and and learn everything Everything everything is time consuming when you're just trying to you know, get to work. It's probably how it always persists. 02:49.78 Daniel Riday Um, but cultural appropriation. Um is ah, what's what's a good way to say that must start again. Um, that's how it persists So um. 03:07.62 Daniel Riday I Think we live in a world now where with the amount of access to information we have. We should be able to do our homework. Um, not start stepping on people's toes not involve ourself in in business that we we shouldn't be. Um, doing and I think it's up to each artist to decide where the line is what they want to what they want to be drawing and portraying. Um I'm going to be moving hopefully and we always need the clients to ah to support us as we move forward because we can't just. You know have a career tattooing ourselves or or paper So We we need clients to support us as we move forward and um, I'm going to try to make real steps where the only art I'm going to be tatooing on people is art based in European roots. So Paleolithic art. Also some norse Norse Revival art as well. I find pretty interesting but um with my interest in um, the art of the mid to upper paleolithic I can't. Pull myself away from that love and I think it's just calling me into that. Um, that way of life and that sorry the way we do that I can't pull myself away from that fascination and it it pulled me back even if I tried to um to step away from it and um. 04:42.65 Daniel Riday If your question is ah how do we identify cultural appropriation in in tattooing art and how do we find ways to navigate better courses of action for tattoo artists. It would have to just come down to the 1 artist at a time. Probably if you're getting a tattoo. Um. Ask questions if you're not satisfied with that person's answers maybe go somewhere else and if you feel like it. Let them know that um their approach is not appropriate I live here in New Zealand I have a lot of friends who are tommoko maori tattoo artists I don't touch that art style. It's just not for me to to um, participate in I can admire it I can have friends who practice it. You know if they make a t-shirt or wear it. Um I'll come support them I'm going to be working with my good friend Julius who's a tum artist at the next atoo convention. 05:40.44 Daniel Riday We're going to have a good time but that art style is off limitmits for me and and I think that that's a healthy division to to make I just couldn't give to it what they give to it anyway. Even if it came from a place of Love. It was just not. Not for my hands to perform. 06:00.97 archpodnet I Gotcha totally understand that and and absolutely respect what you have to say as well because here in the states you see a lot of guys with like Maori tattoos like it's like it's just like why. 06:14.10 Daniel Riday Um, so funny. It's it's it's sad. 06:18.26 archpodnet You know and they're gorgeous I've always admired that art style too. But I know like that art style is like very particular to the artist and to the people that it came from and it has meaning behind it. It's not just like this random amalgamation of lines and designs. It's like I don't I don't want to cross those cross those lines but. So what else do you have coming up. Are you still working with Aaron or there's other are there other archaeologists that you've been able to get in contact with and and collaborate on projects with. 06:45.80 Daniel Riday Yep, so my next project which I I feel like I'm a little behind on already I've just come back from europe and it was a busy time. We're going to look into tool material types with Anne Austin who's a ph d egyptologist. She's been documenting a lot of egyptian mummies under infrared light and finding that a greater number of them have been tattooed than it was previously expected and so she and I will start a project where I'm going to do another. Set of tattoos on myself with traditional materials. Analyze those results so that maybe we can have a better idea of where the egyptians tattooed with ostrich bone ah spikes from sharp plants like acacia thorns maybe gold tattoo needles maybe animal horn. So we'll test a few different materials and needle needle setups I'm also going to do a follow up with that in regards to the pesaic mummies the siberian mummies so that with it that it found in the the alai mountains I talked a little bit once with ah gino caspari about that and um. I think he would be interested in being a kind of voice of authority on um, what the the scythians and scythian like people um around that time would have had access to in regards to what type of metal they might have been using and um. 08:16.60 Daniel Riday How finally that kind of metal can be worked so I'll need to then do some metal working make some tools and needle arrangements with maybe bronze copper gold if I can get my hands on it and and test out what the tools might have been for performing those tattoos. There. The interesting thing is in in Aaron's book archaeology inc um, he talks a bit about I'm not sure if that part was written by him or his co-author Larsretech but they talk about a sarmation tattooing kit. Ah. These kinds of tattooing kits have been found in grave sites from the sarmatian empire but no mummies have ever been found preserved with tattoos which those kits would have made they find mummies from the scythian empire. But no tools that could have made those tattoos so we kind of have 2 questions and 2 you know 2 sets of questions 2 sets of answers but nobody really has a good guess so far as to what the tools look like that make the the pesaric tattoos. Um, so we're going to look into a bit of that. Um I think Aaron will probably be involved in both the egyptian and pezark projects as well. Um, he's incredibly knowledgeable and insightful and and it's a good combination I think it was inevitable when I I relistened to his episode on your podcast I think episode 4. 09:47.62 Daniel Riday He was saying that when he was producing all of this science communication content trying to engage the public he was looking for insightful comments and and discussions and collaboration I think the quote was a rising tide raises all ships. Doesn't really matter who you find to work with as long as it's a person who's looking to help answer your questions with you. Um I think ah if since Aaron is a tattoo focused. 10:26.31 Daniel Riday Archaeologist and I'm an archaeologically fascinated tattoo artist between him and I we fill a lot of gaps like it's just a really good combination and I can't believe somebody else didn't you know, beat me to this relationship where I get to tattoo in the name of science. It's ah. 10:44.36 Daniel Riday It's high point of my career. 10:45.83 archpodnet Yeah that's awesome. Do. That's really, it's really cool to see how you've gotten into this line of research in such a meaningful way and and coming off of you know, just simply an Instagram Dm that has opened up all these different. Lines of thought and research questions and like I just think that is one of the beauties of science and why science like I said in in a last segment why science communication is just so necessary for this field to connect people with to connect researchers with modern-day people who. Um, are engaging in the practices that we study the material remains of right? So dude, that's that's just I'm really excited to see what you guys come up with with next? um, it's it's you know like. 11:43.47 archpodnet Tattoos are one of those modern-day cultural. Um phenomenons not the right word but people like tattoos and I think and this has come from a layman like we've seen more and more people get tattoos. It's become way more common practice especially in like american culture. And like how David is so successful people love dogs and they're fascinated with dogs and he talks about dogs. You know it's just like it's one of those one of those shared interests across the globe that people can relate to and get involved in and and contribute to and in meaningful ways. So i. 12:03.60 Daniel Riday Yeah. 12:18.83 archpodnet I just think what you're doing is absolutely amazing in that it's just part of your work and you get ah you get ah get to do it and and such and I've said meaningful so many times before but you get to do it in a real way with Aaron and others like that's just that's awesome. Dude so. 12:32.97 Daniel Riday She. 12:39.46 archpodnet You know before ah as it goes before we end the show Daniel what are a couple sources. These could be books articles or videos that you would recommend for anyone interested in in tattooing or ancient artistic practices. 12:51.16 Daniel Riday I recently received Aaron in Lars's book Archaeology Inc which really covers it well, it's a really academic but but really interesting book. So I think for academics or or late persons. It's so. Good read I'm also got Gino Kapari's book the book of mummies which is just a beautiful little fun read as well as being really? um, ah let me do that part again. Gino Kaspari's book the book of mummies which is ah. 13:27.54 Daniel Riday A fun fuck I can't do Gino Kisszfari's book the book of mummies which is also really good. 13:31.00 archpodnet You could. 13:38.26 archpodnet He he invited me to be a chap a contributor to that book and I had a I originally said yes, but I had to turn him down because I was like dude I don't know if I can talk about these ritual mortuary practices in the plains quite yet and that's like a whole different line of. Stuff I'm just not prepared to this is like couple years ago in the throes of covid and I was like dude I just want to survive and play civilization I don't want to work on something as hard as looking at trying to get around nagpro and stuff like that I got to I got to check out that book though. That's awesome and. 13:56.80 Daniel Riday Yeah. 14:09.87 Daniel Riday Um, you can also find oh sorry yeah, you can also find our Exxar Journal entry which is Aaron's written 14:14.57 archpodnet Go for it. 14:27.77 Daniel Riday So which is Aaron's published version of our project. We did comparing the tattoo tools. 14:34.44 archpodnet Absolutely yeah and we'll have that all those in the episode description wherever you're listening to your podcast and where can we find where can and where can our listeners find you on social Media dana. 14:47.11 Daniel Riday So my Instagram is called totemic tattoo t o t e m I c underscore tattoo and I have a new website for my studio which is the dash temple dash tattoo dot com. 15:05.54 archpodnet Sweet and an email address. 15:12.31 Daniel Riday Totemic tattoo at gmail.com 15:14.84 archpodnet Perfect and we'll have all those links as well in the episode description. Um, you know David or fucking this is David's part that he's supposed to say that's why I said David not Daniel I wanted to do that. So thanks for joining us today. Daniel. 15:27.84 Daniel Riday Um. 15:31.71 archpodnet Um, dude if given the chance would you still I guess I guess how do I phrase this if if given the chance. Yeah Dan if given a chance again. Would you still choose to ah to live a life tattooing modern day people on. 15:36.80 Daniel Riday Um, ah you can phrase it that way. It's okay. 15:48.11 archpodnet Practices and designs that come from people in ruins. 15:50.87 Daniel Riday Yeah, absolutely I would have even gotten an earlier start. 15:56.75 archpodnet Dude. Absolutely It's been phenomenal having you on well I definitely have to have you back. So everyone we just interviewed Daniel Reday you can find him on Instagram at totemic underscore tattoo his email address totemic tattoo at Gmail.com and his new website. 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