00:00.42 disappointment Welcome back to episode one thirty seven of a life and ruins podcast we're getting roasted here by Chris Webster and Rachel Roden our overlords of the Apn. Ah we wanted to chat at least a little bit and talk about numbers like how many. 00:14.77 Webby Numbers. 00:17.68 disappointment Numbers. What what do they look like for us. What is the trend are we going to go under when do we get polled. 00:26.46 Webby Ah, right? right? Well so keeping in mind that you guys were going through some changes all of you right? All 3 of you were going through some stuff in what was that september I think it was and we ran some reruns for a little while it it just you know. It is what it is but I've definitely done that before and then the apn went through a whole ah project shutdown sort of timeframe in October I call it project shutdown because the company I work with that's what they do right now. But anyway we went through a little bit of a shutdown in October just to to kind of reset and retool a little bit so keeping all that in mind. You guys still had overall 14% growth this year over last year which is great. It means your audience the people listening to this are sharing the podcast and you know telling their friends about it and and saying hey go listen to this great show and you know or at least sharing episodes or something like that on the social media so that's really good. And so looking at this overall in November now we changed our hosting service here at the apn you may have heard Zencastr ads in the first half of this year we were in partnership with them and we still are and we've basically moved everything from the hosting service we've had for the last four years over to Zencastr as they've developed their hosting service and that's going to allow us to to really hopefully elevate everybody in the coming year, especially starting in q one of 2023 as you're listening to this now. So looking at that though the last month we have numbers for for our current. 01:56.28 Webby Sorry the last month we have numbers for for our past hosting service was 4831 downloads in November now that's a little bit lower than the months for the rest of the year but only because again we were coming off. Ah ah, no new shows in September and not really any new shows in in October either. So that's kind of. 02:06.56 Rachel A break. Memories. 02:15.21 Webby That's kind of or I guess it was November that we shut down wasn't it or was it october no it was October that's right? Yeah, yeah, so so coming off of that. That's not bad. That's it's good audience retention right? People were still at least you know downloading the episodes and and not leaving the show as with subscribers and again, that's. 02:16.59 Rachel It was october it was october. Yeah. 02:17.20 archpodnet It was october. 02:32.99 Webby Ah, in this setup here just from january to November that's 60000 downloads just a shy of 60000 downloads for the year which means including the numbers from our new hosting service for December you should be somewhere around 65000 for the year and just at the end of November that was 14% growth over the previous year and 14% a lot I mean that's good. So you know you keep jumping up like that then it's um, you know it. It takes a long time in podcasting to to do this unless you're already a celebrity. It takes a long time to to gain new audience members every year and and just bring those up to whatever numbers. You're happy with you know. 03:10.78 archpodnet And. 03:11.55 Webby So but with our new with our new platform. We can get into this real quick or on with our new platform. The numbers may not matter as much so but we can talk about that. 03:19.68 archpodnet Sweet and those numbers do not include people that download or listen to our show on the all shows feed correct. 03:29.30 Webby That is correct. Yeah, and again that that may change although that is a really logistically difficult problem to solve unless we just get rid of the all shows feed to get altogether. Um, it's just it's it's really hard to quantify what goes on to that feed. Um, but like I said we may be able to since we're since we're with Zencastr now and they're they're new in the dynamic ad insertion market. That's what we're that's why we moved over to them. Um, and that's that's what we're talking about here really is advertising. They're new in this whole thing and because they're new and I got in on the ground floor with them. We're partners with them in this whole deal. We may actually be investing in Zencastr here shortly you know they're asking networks and podcasters to maybe invest in them to help them build out some more services which is really cool I just actually saw that email not too long ago and. Because we're we're at this level I'm hoping to have a little more flexibility. So again, 1 of the reasons we moved over here is we really like Zencastr megaphone is what we were on megaphone was purchased by Spotify while we were part of this and as everything else that's purchased by Spotify I don't mind Spotify. You know it's great. It. It is what it is but they like to own everything. 04:39.81 Rachel Like and whether. 04:41.45 Webby That's why they bought Joe Rogan that's why they're buying other podcast networks and when they bought megaphone to me the writing was kind of on the wall for megaphone like if you're not on Spotify exclusively. You may not be able to use megaphone is is what people are thinking in the future. so so I was looked shopping around anyway and. The way Zencastr is going to do stuff is they're going to have what they call programmatic advertising on your shows which basically means they are seeking big advertising deals so they'll they'll take the guys that we can't possibly hit with our numbers individually. They'll take those big guys and those big guys are going to say I want. To buy a 100000 downloads of advertising on this show in a month. Well we could never we can never land a client like that you know just we don't just don't have the numbers the per episode numbers but us and 15 other podcasts might have those numbers so they're going to be splitting all that up. And divv up the numbers and just giving the advertiser the downloads that they need but spreading it across networks and other shows we still get the same amount as as though we were doing it but we get the amount corresponding to our downloads so we will still be paid according to you know, um, the numbers. But. We don't have to search out any advertising. Of course they'd take a cut for that. But if we can if we can get this going and and they can really keep it going then that is going to change a lot of stuff here at the apn you know if we can if we can start paying for things like editing and social media and marketing and things like that then we can start elevating all the podcasts through. 06:12.31 Webby Those efforts and you know bringing things up. Not only that but continuing the efforts to you know, monetize this for you guys a little bit. It's difficult when shows have 3 hosts because you got to split it three ways but you know either way, you're not going to quit your day jobs for this show. 06:22.58 Rachel Was. 06:28.92 Webby Probably ever unless you know it gets like stupid big. But um, that's where we're at so that's what we're kind of hoping for in 2023 I've had a lot of talks with the management and the leadership at Duncaster and the dynamic ad insertion and programmer programmatic ads should start in January and That's when that's when hopefully everything everything goes up. 06:50.73 archpodnet That so where do we rank now because the the dirt has also has left the eightpn so now where does that put ruins did we did we take the number 2 slot because it's that's the archeology show up there. 06:57.80 Webby That's right. 07:00.23 Rachel Should be number 2 right? and. 07:05.46 Kanye West When number 45 in Denmark. 07:05.95 Webby Yet should be should be let me look at so ah so looking at ah, just looking at Zencastr for the year um 07:09.56 archpodnet That was the weirdest ranking. 07:21.92 Webby Sorry, looking at megaphone for the year we were at around by the end of November we were at just over 900000 downloads across the entire network which is pretty great and that was yeah that was approaching I was hoping to hit a million downloads this year but it doesn't look. It looks like we're going to be just shy of that by a few tens of thousands. Um, but and we probably would have hit it have we not shut down in October to be honest with you. But that being said, that does put you guys into not including the network feed that puts you right behind the archeology show. So the archeology show had 171000 downloads in 2000 up to November. Of 2022 and the life and ruins podcast was really close to that one seventy one with 59000 downloads so you have just ah, just a little ways to go. Um. 08:05.32 archpodnet Um. 08:08.61 Rachel Um, just smart as. 08:15.49 Webby But that being said too. The the dirt was only at a one thirty one they were still 40000 off of the archeology show too again I have no idea why people like the archeology show so much it. It's got to be Rachel because I was doing it for 3 years before that and I did not have even close to those numbers so you know I guess so I don't know. 08:30.00 Rachel It's just because I give you crap the entire episode. It's. 08:34.98 Webby Well and here's the other contender you have so the dirt left right? as pseudo archeology started gaining its audience back because the archaeological fantasies show I almost. Started the archeology show in response to the archeological fantasies show because I was irritated that the show was always on top and it about pseudoareology and it just like irritated me and I wanted to create a show that elevated and and and jumped up in the numbers and I did but it really took the archaeological fantasy show going off the network for that to really happen. Um, because they she just got like massive numbers for that show and Andrew is already up to right behind you guys and he kicked the show back off it. It still consistently was getting downloads even without episodes for 4 years it was still consistently getting numbers and it. Ah. So with him only kicking it back off in I think june or so give or take mayor June um, it had 28000 downloads up through November of last year which is by half what you guys have so it's um, it's coming up there. Yeah, we'll see see how it does. 09:39.20 archpodnet Got you? well that so that that averages to almost like just shy of 5000 downloads a month just from our show pull out. 09:45.56 Kanye West And reads it and they're doing a math with with your hand right there I Just that's just on to me. 09:45.84 Webby Yeah, yeah, yeah. 09:46.85 Rachel Yeah e. 09:54.95 archpodnet What. 09:55.55 Webby Yeah, that's there that's 5000 downloads a month I think with the yeah. 09:56.78 Rachel Ah. 09:59.24 Rachel Um, ah. 09:59.55 Kanye West Ah know it. It looked like you had like a pen and paper and were like doing stats right there as you were talking. It was funny. Ah ah a kid likes numbers. 10:00.44 disappointment That's 12 all right? ah. 10:03.96 archpodnet Oh yeah I was I have yeah I had it I was taking notes. No I just I just wrote down numbers. It's the adderall I don't know what to tell you guys like I feel like I heard numbers and I was like I should write these down and that's what I did like I have. 10:05.46 Rachel Um, like like do it some long division. Ah. 10:08.47 disappointment Did you do Bayesian How did we get to it. 10:21.32 archpodnet But I don't know why I'm going to do yeah, just leave. Yeah anyways, Um, but this what's your. 10:25.72 Webby I will real quick one more stat I can give you guys to your number 1 downloaded episode in 2022 again up through November was episode 1 ah 5 the domestication and it says domestication in human brain size with Stefan Milo and that was 1342 downloads and that was back in. It was great. Yeah yeah, I do remember that one April Twenty Fifth 2022 is when it was downloaded or when it was created and it's about 200 over the last one so yeah well that's 10:45.84 Kanye West That was an excellent episode if I remember correctly. Yeah. Oh he must have shared it. 11:01.61 Webby That's a good lesson right? I mean you probably always tell your guests to share out. But you guys you guys interview a lot of people I mean not all the time but you do interview a lot of people that do have their own followings on social media and getting them to you know purposely share out and do stuff is is one way to build an audience for sure. 11:11.28 Rachel E. 11:17.70 Kanye West Yeah, yeah. 11:19.20 archpodnet Yeah, and we've built a rapport with Stefan over over theres like he's always a blast to have on I mean same with we have those targeted like when we need a fun time. You know we have we have our our group but you know um, part of part of me asking like our numbers and and things like that and you mentioned like why? um. 11:20.50 Webby Um, yeah. 11:27.93 Webby Ah. 11:37.20 archpodnet The archeology show is so popular so like last week out of curiosity because I was thinking about her numbers and I was looking at the spreadsheet that I had from 20021 and we've kind of remained around that same like 3500 to 4500 range 11:48.20 Webby Ah, kind of remain. 11:51.42 Webby Much. 11:53.40 archpodnet But haven't really grown super much of course that's what I thought but you just said we had an 11% increase um so I just asked Reddit because like we've done this before we we'll ask our Instagram followers like what are we doing right? What are we doing wrong, but those that usually follow on Instagram or they're there for the memes. 11:57.70 Webby No fourteen. Yeah I just have read it. 12:08.52 archpodnet Or they're our friends and they listen so like we've gotten like positive reinforcement where it's like well we enjoy your show. It's like talking to a friend and then so I asked Reddit out. You know our slash archeology on a whim I was like hey I'm one of the hosts of the life in ruins this is where we've been these past couple years like what can. 12:10.10 Rachel M. 12:25.62 Webby You guys have. 12:28.80 archpodnet Like do you guys have critical feedback to like make this show better if you listen and stop and we we got responses like it got well liked people like were pretty nice like 1 person was like no one wants to hear 3 guys talk of like just hang out I'm like okay you're not listening to our show because that's no. 12:33.53 Rachel Oh. 12:39.97 Kanye West Okay, Boomer yeah. 12:42.45 Rachel There's always somebody who says that something like like yeah. 12:42.73 Webby Yeah, but everyone else. 12:44.90 archpodnet Yeah, there's all, but everyone else was like pretty good and and folks were like I stop listening in March because I don't have an archeology background and so what it felt like to me was like hanging out with my part like my girlfriend's friends that I didn't know that's how they felt and that was the consistent like if they weren't students like undergraduate graduate students within archeology. 12:55.53 Kanye West Yeah. 12:56.50 Webby Yeah, yeah. 13:00.80 Rachel Um. 13:03.94 archpodnet They didn't feel they they were left out in the cold they were like I don't understand these references like I don't understand this inside joke about this archeologist and so. 13:06.19 Rachel Included. Ah. 13:07.92 Webby I Don't understand. Yeah. 13:14.60 archpodnet And that's where they talked and someone mentioned the archeology show specifically like I still watch the archeology show because they explain the topics and like I can they're able to do that So I can understand as a layman and enjoy the content whereas you guys like it just felt like a club and so then we kind of started realizing. 13:22.37 Rachel E. 13:24.99 Webby Understand that's late. Ah you guys. 13:29.94 Webby Yeah. 13:33.14 archpodnet On our feedback and our platform like yeah, that's kind of what we have developed is we didn't really make a show necessarily for everybody. It really became a show for early career archaeologists and students in particular which makes sense with my graduate career and then David and Connor graduated masters just as we started and that's who we kind of had on. 13:41.80 Kanye West I. 13:46.59 Rachel Like. 13:51.29 disappointment Yeah I don't think and I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing either I mean we want you want to have a target audience you want to have like ah a group of faithful people that are going to be coming back and this this generation they're always goingnna be new archeologists who are looking to get in the field and. 13:52.67 archpodnet A lot of times and some are no. 13:54.94 Rachel Yeah. 13:57.11 Kanye West Nah. 13:57.48 Webby Yeah. 14:07.69 Webby Yeah, yeah. 14:08.99 disappointment And that and I think what we've we've talked about is expanding that and having more different types of episodes so where we take different approaches and just take something that's in the news and kind of go over just the basics of it and talk about what's going on which is something I think that the archeology show is. 14:23.77 Rachel E. 14:25.31 Webby Um, yeah. 14:28.11 disappointment You guys are really good at as you bring that stuff to light and you have those conversations about stuff that's relevant and it seems to work. 14:32.33 Rachel Is. 14:33.18 Webby It is it. It is important to think about your audience though right like you have to create that that avatar of the person who is listening to the show and and what you want them to know and what their what their knowledge level is to begin with right? like I've never stressed about the numbers for the C Or M Archeology podcast 14:34.18 Kanye West You know? ah. 14:51.92 Webby We're about to hit 10 years of doing that show. We just recorded 255 to the two hundred and fifty fifth episode and yet still our numbers are about the same we get you know 5 to 6 or 700 downloads per episode maybe 2 or three thousand a month or something like that. But that's like the size of the. People who listen to podcasts in crm to begin with you know, even with those numbers being you know, relatively low as far as ah, a super niche podcast goes. There's still hardly anybody in sra archeology that I've talked to in the past that has not listened to or heard about the sierra archeology podcast because we've been around for 10 years and that's the whole goal of that show right? The whole goal of that show is to present this information to that audience and um and that's who we do it for and and we don't we don't feel the need to to break down any terms or anything like that and unless we're unless we're specifically you know, defining something but I would say for your show. That is one piece of feedback I would give you is sometimes unless it's your audience sometimes you guys do get really technical on some things and get into some stuff academically that some people may be lost on you know what? I mean Rachel. 16:02.32 Rachel I Think what I would say is I I know right? He totally did. Ah. 16:04.17 archpodnet So wait wait wait this is our show. We we decide who goes Chris I'm just kidding Rachel ah for for those that are for for those that are listening. There's a function on on Zencast or you can raise your hand if you want to speak next and. 16:06.49 Kanye West A. 16:08.43 Webby Um, ah sorry bad habit Rachel you rachel you go next. 16:18.18 Rachel And. 16:19.69 Webby Ah, 2 16:19.82 archpodnet 1 Rachel's the first time is the first guest who's ever used that feature and then like Chris is like go ahead Rachel it's your chart. It's like wait above it your guests here but please Rachel sorry. 16:27.55 Webby Um. Ah, it's a hard habit to break. 16:30.54 Rachel Ah, yeah, yeah, we use it all the time on our show when we have a guest. so um so I think what I would say about your show is that I actually always used to ask Chris to edit it and I've kind of stopped doing that because I'm very slow at editing. The more tracks you have the longer it takes and Chris is just faster at it. But when I have the time to do it I love to edit you guys' show because I'm listening as a editing and I love the like camaraderie that you guys have because you're clearly buddies and you have been for a long time and I know that you got some feedback that maybe people didn't like that as much but that's honestly what I love about. Listening to your show and the only thing I would say is I do have an archeology background. So when you go into the weeds a little bit on things I can mostly follow and keep up with it. So I think the only the only feedback I would say is that. Just try to take that pause and explain things a little bit more ask your guests to explain whatever term they just used was that maybe isn't a layperson term that that might be a way to engage people in the conversations and still keep who you are as a podcast you know like. 17:34.11 Kanye West Yeah, yeah. 17:35.98 Rachel You're still a niche topic and I think that's great and you guys are really good at it So you shouldn't You shouldn't lose who you are as a podcast but maybe just try to bring more people in with more explaining and slowing it down a little bit. You know. 17:46.59 Kanye West Chris you. 17:49.30 Webby Yeah I I did it. Thank you I did a ah my hand was my head was clearly raised I um, the one of the episodes I did as you're listening if you're listening to this in real time was a few weeks ago episode 99 of the archeology show Rachel was. 17:55.58 Rachel Ah. 18:06.10 Webby It's a whole lot of busy family time. So I did a solo episode and I just called it She did she did. Yeah it was a day before release and we had nothing so I recorded ah an episode called just the archeology of the apn and I went into. 18:06.79 Rachel I Abandon him. It's okay, you can say it I do it. 18:21.10 Webby It was you know a few weeks after the anniversary of the eight year anniversary of the apn and I just wanted to go into for people who hadn't heard of our other shows and I really just broke down where the apn started I talked about all the current active shows and one of the things I mentioned about your guys' show was. Exactly what Rachel said I said some of my favorite episodes of your guys' show are when it's just the 3 of you and and you're talking not necessarily ah the catchup episodes are fun. But if you want to get into more archeology where you're talking about what you're doing and and things that you guys have done and and just getting into a single topic I really like those because you guys have a good. 18:53.67 Rachel Good chemistry. Yeah. 18:54.72 Webby You know you guys Jill well together. Yeah. 18:57.15 Kanye West I noticed that with the um oh forgive me hang on I noticed that as raised my hand. Ah the episode where me and Connor just I think we're talking about pseudoscience just in general but we ended up I ended up doing the lord of the rings monologue from the the prologue. 19:04.15 Rachel Um. 19:11.40 Rachel Oh I edited that one I Love that episode. Yeah. 19:11.36 Webby Yeah. 19:14.69 Kanye West Was that you yeah and I could tell like you guys had fun with it because you changed my voice and you even like added like a lot of humor to it with like the voice that was so funny. Yeah, and I was like in my like a one I messed up the Monologue still in the voice that was like hang on guys just like. 19:23.30 Rachel Oh Chris did that part? Yeah, yeah, yeah. 19:33.40 Kanye West And I thought that was so funny because I could tell you get bored editing sometimes I'm assuming and then like that one you were like oh and like what? yeah but I too like I listen to ah Connor does as well like a lot of um comedy podcasts and like. 19:34.18 Rachel Ah, yeah. 19:34.47 Webby Ah. 19:34.54 disappointment Um. 19:41.76 Webby Um, yeah. 19:51.45 Kanye West I was explaining to my parents to the day like it's weirder like it's harder for me to sit and watch a standup special now more so than it is to just listen to comedians talk to each other and I think that's what's really good about like our kind of podcasts. It's like for especially for other archeologists like it's fun to sit in and hear other archaeologists talk about stuff that you know. 19:59.45 Rachel If. 20:08.70 Rachel E. 20:10.33 Kanye West But for sure if you're someone who's not used to archeology and just wants to hear about the sphinx like it's not for them and we probably need to find a medium but and on that note I guess we will come back in segment 3 with some more roasting. 20:16.88 Rachel Yeah. 20:27.60 Webby But.