00:00.00 archpodnet Welcome to episode one forty of a life ruins podcast. We investigate the careers and research of those living life ruins I'm re hosts Carlton Gover and I'm joined by my co-host Conor John and and David Howe before we begin listeners of a life ruins podcast. We have heard you on Reddit. And Instagram and we are going to make some changes to the show 1 if you're listening you probably noticed that our cover art has changed that was voted on over a year ago and we've we've done it. Um. 00:32.98 David Howe Bum Bram Brown 00:39.42 archpodnet But that being said so we went out to Reddit in middecember asked how we could help change the show. We got some constructive criticism from reddis on our slash archeology. We also got just some pure fucking slander. So someone commented on. Ah, the recent episode with just Conor and David and said that we had to use the n-word we had not we checked everyone checked and the kid couldn't back himself up. Yeah, the whole thing was it was just ridiculous. So then we decided we should probably ask people of Instagram ah big. 01:07.97 David Howe Nor was there one part of the where we would have said it ah here. 01:18.26 archpodnet The the. So then we decided to reach out to our followers on Instagram many of you also listen to the show and know us and aren't on Reddit big takeaways 1 less interview style episodes. We'll continue to do those but you all wanted us to do more content article and. Ah, recent events focus episodes. That's what we have for you today is more content which that we've done background research provide a more systematic episode and. 01:51.40 David Howe Um, not to say that we won't be doing interviews anymore. Um, but there were several I guess conversations about how um like the meat of the interviews like where it takes getting into segment one then segment 2 Then finally the research like maybe we'll condense that down a bit and. 02:07.13 archpodnet Yeah, yeah, so we'll change those up a little bit. The other one is a big critique was for those that aren't archeologists early career in the crm that some of our episodes feel very much like you are at a partner's work party. 02:07.67 David Howe Just get right into the meat of it I think was another thing. 02:26.90 archpodnet And you don't know what's going on So we're going to do more to explain Define Terms Theories Contexts of the content that we are talking about. Um. 02:39.64 David Howe Yeah, um, and there was one another thing. Oh right? if you didn't see the Reddit post about our ah asking for critical criticism or what could we be doing better. We also posted it to Instagram. If you don't use either of those platforms feel free to shoot us an email if you have any suggestions. Um, we're not going to change like who we are. We're not going to post an episode that we don't find fun or entertaining but we want to make sure it's successful. We want you to be able to be like hey I know this podcast and send it to my friends and not have to be like well I mean skip 5 through 44 and get to 50 you know to like do their episode like we want you to be able to be proud of a podcast you can send to people and if you do insinuate that we did a hate crime or of something of that nature when we ask you to please provide a times stampmp please be able to say oh it's at this timestamp and not that you can't bear to listen to it again because you made it up. 03:30.74 archpodnet Yeah, that yeah that comment that comment was fucking ridiculous. 03:33.77 David Howe Ah, don't do that. 03:34.95 connor That's not yeah, it's not Productive. We're We're generally looking for criticism and and trying to better because we want this podcast to evolve and grow and that involves taking real looks at what we do and. How we do it and we want to be more accessible to everyone but like everyone else said, we're not Changing. We're still going to be ridiculous. That's that's the brand. 04:03.53 David Howe Yeah, it. 04:03.70 archpodnet Yeah that's the brand this this is what you get. We're not changing that we're just going to do our research a little bit more so we're not going to one of our biggest fears. You know we tried this more content and and factually based stuff in the past and we did it poorly with revolutionary boys 1 we had to do a full second episode to correct what we said the first time and that really burnt us out probably because one we hit the revolutionary war which a bunch of people really know about and they grilled us and we got kind of like wow well let's not do that again. So ah. 04:32.70 David Howe Ah. 04:36.28 archpodnet But with this this latest round of like really asking guys because the 3 of us have really gotten burnt out from this and fundamentally sometimes bored of the podcast and we we needed something to do and we felt like listen to yeah. 04:42.76 David Howe Um, yeah. 04:46.34 David Howe Because there's no feedback at all for us to know like how we're doing other than numbers. 04:52.76 archpodnet Exactly and our and our numbers have kind of stayed stagnant and after listening to both Chris and Rachel's feedback on our annual review. The Reddit and Instagram and and we've gotten plenty of emails and Dms and it's been fantastic. The outpour of of support and the big one. More focused episodes that have researched behind it. So today. We're going to do one on probably the beginning of a little little miniseries on the history of archeological thought theory in an american context. Ah. 05:21.80 David Howe Which if that sounds boring to you is not. It's very fascinating and it will help understand a lot more about archeology. 05:29.70 archpodnet Yes, exactly because the history of the field is pretty fun. Um, ah. 05:36.29 David Howe Um, and it's constructive. 05:36.40 connor There's lots. Ah lots of racism. But you know it's pretty fun. 05:39.60 archpodnet Yeah, be prepared to be uncomfortable like it's like if you didn't know archaeology was ah it was a colonial field and has its deep roots in Colonialism. It's not like physical anthropology which is now bioanthropology if you want to take a trip down Holy shit lane. Ah. 05:51.52 connor Um, yeah. 05:54.76 archpodnet Let's just say like Hitler and the third reich were inspired by 1930 s american physical anthropologists like they're like how do we do? what they did to the native americans but better and hashtag that was the final solution. Those are uncomfortable. 05:56.92 David Howe Right. 06:07.17 David Howe And if you're they are uncomfortable and if you're ah someone who is currently and where I get this on Tickok instagram all the time. Oh my god another millennial talking about race over a board like they're not going to listen to this anymore. This is one of those times where it's like you when we're talking about that kind of stuff you might want to listen because it's like where that comes from. 06:22.77 archpodnet Yes, our discipline was the one to identify that Race is a social construct. So if you that has that has biological consequences as we see with the enslavement and forced reproduction of American and of not American Indian of ah. 06:25.80 David Howe Ah. 06:28.20 David Howe So. 06:39.91 archpodnet American Enslaved peoples. So what? no show. 06:40.25 David Howe As seen on Paramount plus in the new show that there's I haven't seen Yellowstone I almost saw the prequel but now is a a second prequel before yellowstone with Harrison Ford in it and the first scene was just some indigenous girl being beaten by a nun and I was like yeah I'm out. 06:51.70 archpodnet Oh the 1920 s one. Yeah. 06:59.62 David Howe Like you guys watch it. 07:02.39 archpodnet That also happened ah as a consequence of some of these things so like early american archeology and anthropology is rife with colonial and racist doctrine and the field has like 96% moved away from that. 07:16.40 connor Yeah, we got some stragglers. 07:20.60 archpodnet There's some holdouts people that will they're the kind of people that are going to die type on their desk and will be identified by the smell radiating out of their office like those are the ones like once? what's their God you know who? but anyways, ah. 07:24.98 David Howe Um, come on Jeffrey he. Ah. 07:30.56 connor Ah, yeah. 07:34.85 David Howe 1 last thing I would like to say before before we hop in. Um, it was come to brought to our attention that I and I guess by extent conor and the episode that we were in in which we did not use a racial lu ah I say like entirely too much and when I went and edited my presentation I gave to the day I was like man. I drank every time I said like I'd be blackout. So if you're drawn the car if you're in the on the drive today driving ah take a sip every time Carlton says um, says like every time Connor says umms is like and every time I say um and says like and ah, you will be pretty caffeinated if you're at home listening to this. Where you have an alcoholic beverage I warn you please be in your house put your keys in a bowl and strap in get some trying to get better at it but we we will try. Um, so anyway. 08:20.43 archpodnet Ah, yes I I have I have found that when I take the Bob Kelly approach where if I slow down and pause I don't say my so my verbal crutches but when I get worked up or my mind starts running. 08:37.41 David Howe Yeah. 08:38.60 archpodnet That's when um, comes out a lot more as I told David and Connor because we talked about this before I had a professor Dr Gilbert at Radford University and ah so I think it's the class was something 2 ah 1 but it's one of those stupid. Welcome to college classes. You have to take that aren't part your major and it was public speaking this guy from New Orleans got polio before they had the vaccine so he was he was in a wheelchair cool Kat spent most of his life as lawyer, but this asshole had 1 of those like hotel reception bells. On his wheelchair and he pavlov dog the fuck out of us. Yeah, you know he anytime someone used a verbal crutch. He would ring it and and for a very long time when someone says that kind of stuff they use verbal crutches I heard it. 09:16.20 David Howe With the guy from breaking bed. Yeah. 09:33.57 archpodnet And I wasn't really aware of how bad David said it until we got that comment I listened to it and now all I hear is is when I do it. It was a war crime what that man did. 09:39.90 David Howe Like it should be a Jiva can geneva convention problem. Yeah. 09:45.87 archpodnet Was a crime against humanityity for everyone in that class and everyone from radford who had Professor Gilbert knew exactly what we're talking about. So we're we're gonna move away from. But oh yes, no, that was a that was a crime against humanity if there was a cards against humanity card. It'd be David's use of of like but to the archeology. So as as we mentioned. 09:49.91 David Howe I Meant me on the last episode This is. 09:56.13 connor Ah. 10:04.95 archpodnet Archeology has its roots in Colonialism particularly we need to we need to delve on back to a time of Pigeon Poop Powdered wigs. Um yes, um. 10:15.20 David Howe Yes. 10:20.60 archpodnet You know, founding daddy kind of stuff like way back when it's J Brad it's j red founding daddy if I don't think just um, so contextually. 10:23.88 David Howe It's what's his name. it's it's J Brad yeah shout out at it's jbred. We got to get him on the show dude. But anyway archeology. 10:38.37 archpodnet Europeans mediterranean folks have been exposed to each other for a long time and knew about existing cultures. There's a very much to geo-christian background to a lot of understanding of the differences between people across Europe North Africa and the Middle East as europeans are finding way to circumnavigate. Ah, or circum circumvent the silk road and the holdings of people in the Middle East China yes circumvent by circumnavigating. Ah yes, europeans were trying to ah. 11:05.16 David Howe Circumvent by circumnavigating title up of the episode. 11:05.93 connor Yes. 11:14.72 archpodnet Basically something to do with sailing that there was a lot of of of line of sight trying to keep the african coast in line and if you lost sight of the coast. You'd basically you're traveling south across paralleling Africa if you don't make ah a pretty critical left turn. You're going to Antarctica and you may come back. You know like you, you're just just gone so some portuguese dude was able to figure this out. Um and and so and circum and get get around Africa to the to the East Coast but 11:32.65 David Howe A. 11:38.98 David Howe Gal. No it that was beral diaz right? am I am I writing that no, that's berel Diaz was a spanish conquestaor different guy I'm who oh Joe. 11:48.40 archpodnet I don't know I should know because I just saw his monument in Portugal for the SHs and I got I got a whole I got a whole history of of portuguese exploration that wasn't they they magellan. 11:54.72 connor Yeah, oh no. 12:02.82 David Howe John Cabot no nope magellan magellan he's the cir he surf and navigated. There's the person who did the cape of good hope first. 12:03.20 connor It's what John is Magellan. Yeah. 12:07.97 archpodnet Yeah, he well he didn't he didn't finish it. He died in and in Java or something like that and Papa New guinea has yeah he didn't make it home. The ship did and his crew did he got the credit good for them. Um, but they didn't get eaten. So. 12:13.40 David Howe Oh he was eaten I believe in yet Tahiti This is somewhere. 12:25.59 David Howe Bartholomew Diaz I was close. 12:27.57 archpodnet Okay, and as they are coming in contact with ah cultures wildly differ from themselves they trying to understand their place in the world specifically in a judeo-christian context the bible genesis they have Christopher Columbus who is sailing ah 49 to two the ocean blue hispaniola they. Basically um europeans are kind of late to realize north and South America exist as as we're starting to learn now. Um I know he went back a couple times he figured it out. 12:54.22 David Howe Um, and the kid died thinking he was in Japan. 12:58.62 David Howe Well, he's still they were like bro this is we're in Cuba and he was like no this Japan leaves the islands off in Japan. Yeah. 13:06.53 archpodnet Oh yeah, there there was yeah there was a whole whole deal. Um, they were trying to make sense of a lot of this stuff. So really as Wiley and sabloff night to 93 call it. This is the speculative period which is like fourteen nine to 2 to 1840 in which everyone's trying to figure out europe's. Place in the world and understand these global cultures and societies and how they fit to 1 another. So everyone's just trying to kind of there's their There's ah. 13:32.59 connor They're reconciling their worldviews essentially with what the new information that that's that's coming out is that they're they're interacting and seeing all these new things and like what the fuck. 13:32.95 David Howe Um, yeah. 13:41.37 David Howe Yeah. 13:41.62 archpodnet But the 1 thing that doesn't change europeans are always on top like that that is that is never that never changes. They're just trying to rake everyone else below european society because they're like we're the pinnacle where do all these other savages lie on the totem pole like that's what they're trying to figure out. 13:48.15 David Howe That. 13:48.47 connor In instance. 14:00.63 archpodnet And so and also. 14:01.30 connor And that really doesn't that really doesn't change it up until like the nineteenth twentieth century which is which is a sad. Yeah, yeah to be. 14:07.32 David Howe Till 9090 but 14:09.39 archpodnet Yes, it's so big. Yeah, as Connor said and what's what's important about this these early expeditions. Um, are being funded by royalty. Rich white guys who are going across the globe. Their worldview is coloring this aspect and they're also coming in with a framework of of trying to categorize people and cultures in relation to europeans so they're they're trying to figure out wherever 1 lies. What is a possible relationship so that's where we start seeing instances of. The tower of babel being used which is a biblical event and what's what the tower of babel is broken falls or something and everyone gets a different language. These other people are the results of the thirteenth the lost tribe of Israel the thirteenth tribe or one that we see. 14:48.16 David Howe That's where the language is yeah. 14:55.83 David Howe Kangaroos were just omitted from Noah's ark 14:58.76 archpodnet Yes, like how did they penguins? What are those? um as well as ah, you also see things of like well black people are the children of cain like they're really trying to in this sense like understand the world through the bible which which doesn't work. And really, it's not until the nineteenth century in the eighteen hundreds when we have um other fields of science becoming more ah institutionalized. We start seeing these other things but but 1 of the products of this antiquarianism which are these are. They're not even archeologists. It's what precedes archeology and dequens are the 1 people going across the globe pilfering things and bringing them back to Europe for curiosity cabinets which are basically just imagine a shelf in your house and rich white guys dude with stuff across the world. They bring people over. Um they're smoking. 15:51.80 David Howe British Museum has ah a super sick whole room of the museum. That's just a curiosity cabinet naturally. 15:54.24 archpodnet Yeah, yes, they're smoking opium with their other rich white guy buddies and showing the cool stuff that they've collected. Um the yes. 16:01.64 David Howe I took this from a hunter in Papua new guinea he was saying something I don't believe it was anything about god so I shot him. 16:08.84 connor Ah. 16:13.83 archpodnet And took his things. Ah so that's we start seeing institutions in the nineteenth century like the british museum the first um culture-pecific um museums in turn italy which I just visited and that's all about Egypt. Italy had a huge fascination with Egypt actually, in fact, when we talk about nationalism which comes in to play later. Ah the ah kingdom of italy the united kingdom fun fact. The United States has been a country longer than italy has um, they really tried to tie themselves to Egypt like tried to like like like. 16:38.56 David Howe Oh. 16:44.77 archpodnet The Holy Roman Empire the tsars how everyone try to tie themselves to Rome the italians try to do so through Egypt and so there's a lot of that going on but out of this. We get the fun ah italian circus strongman belzonni ah, who is Tino um part of. 16:46.73 David Howe Um. 17:00.47 David Howe Dino. 17:05.38 archpodnet Excavations ransacking of Egypt in which he is instrumental in getting this very famous statue of ramses the second pharaoh ramses the second out of a bust yes of the sand and present. Ah for this event. 17:13.60 connor I Think it's a it's called a bus technically. Okay. 17:22.25 archpodnet Is Percy Shelley who writes a very famous poem about the event which is read by Brian Cranston for the season. The the final season of breaking bat. Ah Bob Kelly plays this in his. Ah, intro archeology class at the University Of Wyoming and we have it for you now. So Chris and Rachel please be sure to add the soundboard audio. Thank you. 18:46.88 David Howe So safe to say that was a bop. 18:48.62 archpodnet That is a Bop I haven't saved my ipod my Ipod iphone. She says talk about archeology. Yeah, they my my eye touch. 18:55.82 David Howe Speaking of Antiquarianism all right next segment. 18:56.21 connor Yes I do my ipad my ipad mini. What or what? what was the little I your shuffle you. 19:05.80 David Howe I Touch man I forgot about that. 19:05.52 archpodnet Was shuffled. Yes, no my touch. Yeah, they were the precursors. Um, so a lot of that's going on. It's not specific just to Egypt this is when the elgin marbles. Well really the part the parthenon um marbles are taken out of the parthenon of of. Greece and brought to the british museum. Um, so this is really a time of not only of european intellectuals trying to understand the world around them and categorize cultures but also bring a lot of these objects across the globe back. Um. For not really study but really to show off and it's it's a product of imperialism fundamentally, it's a product of early antiquarianism is very much aligned with colonialism imperialism and a lot of other isms that make us very uncomfortable to learn about today. 20:00.00 connor Yeah, and on that note send them and on that note, we are gonna hopefully Nineteenth century gets a little better but we're still not great. So we'll catch that in the next segment. 20:00.16 David Howe And they were just a billionaires of but my my bad you go. 20:13.29 David Howe Has my phones I. 20:16.58 connor No, let me redo that so we don't have Erica in the background and we will continue in and the next segment talking about the nineteenth century which is gets a little better. We're we're making steps towards less colonialism and racism. But we're still kind of in that period. So. We'll catch you in the next segment episode one forty of a life and ruins podcast.