00:00.00 David Howe But. 00:00.58 archpodnet And welcome back to episode one forty five from his podcast. We're going to pick right back off um, moving ah around the same time as the nineteenth century right? which is the eighteen hundreds. There are ah some other issues that are popping up as they relate to colonialism. And imperialism. So there's there's 2 case studies that want to take a gander at real quick we got ah we got to talk about tommy j good old good old Thomas Jefferson real quick t j so. 00:27.57 David Howe T j inventor of the Swivel chair fish fish fiionato of her excuse me connoisseur of pimento cheese most ordered thing on his logs pomento cheese. 00:39.57 connor Was need the dump. 00:39.65 archpodnet He also smuggled wine to our grape seeds to America that was a big. No-no and he's smuggled them by you know, like that those like really poofy sleeve ends. They used to have he like unso them. 00:52.92 David Howe Ah. 00:54.31 archpodnet Threw a bunch of grape seeds in there so to back up and that's how he smuggled it. 00:56.75 David Howe American ingenuity you what they say at 1 more war 2 founding Daddy shut out. It's j bread. 01:02.48 archpodnet All Yeah, all of our founding daddies were were pirates at founding daddy. Um, so around. 01:11.77 David Howe Ah, do you want me to just lay it out. So do Thomas Jefferson we can kind of consider the father of american archeology in a way the founding daddy excuse me ah because he was it. 01:13.81 archpodnet Lay it out. David. 01:23.55 archpodnet Daddy. 01:29.30 David Howe He he he oversaw the excavation of mounds ah in his in his yard essentially at monticello and he he dissected those mounds and and learned what they were but was it was it him dig in the mounds Carlton. 01:42.50 archpodnet No, no, no, no, it was his. It was the enslaved people ah africans that he owned did that so he oversaw did he get dirti. No the six foot 4 socially awkward guy did not get his hands dirty. 01:46.28 David Howe Um. 01:58.20 archpodnet And the reason why this was done is as we get to talk about colonialism again as the states and Canada are being colonized by european powers to come across monumental architecture in the form of earth and mounds. They don't know what they are. They think the contemporary. Contemporary the contemporary indigenous populations. There's no way in how they could they could move dirt to make piles of dirt just it was well beyond their intellect and so this is what we call the mound builder myth in which this was used to justify one the extermination of American Indians because they didn't. 02:30.82 David Howe Ah. 02:36.28 archpodnet European colonists and americans canadians did not believe ah American Indians could have done that so they must have killed the first and the people who did do it the mound builders. They the the contemporary native americans must have killed them all then if we kill them. It's it's fine also no one really believed. 02:46.61 David Howe Ah. 02:53.54 archpodnet That they no one knew how long the Americas had been occupied the the prevailing theory is at this time the Americas prior to european colonization really people hadn't been there longer than 1000 years so like really like no one was there before 500 common era ah t j has his slaves. Systematically, that's the keyword systematically excavate the mounds to see the strata and he was able to find european goods mixed with um, indigenous pottery and goods and then he could he could see the the context of cultural continuity between the outer layers which had european stuff to the inner layers which had pre. Ah, european contact and he was like no these are the same people they made these this wasn't too hard Thomas Jefferson everybody who was able to system aletics like first use of that we know of a systematic excavation now that's not just to an american context. We have to throw the british under the bus again. 03:43.00 David Howe Um, yeah, do hang on just do we wonder? Do you think someone else did that before him too but he was the only literate person to do it and like got it or like not my students say literate like person that. Had notoriety to get that published I guess I know. 04:02.13 archpodnet Now I I listen there's like a history of the Mormon Church hold hold with me um, pilfering american indian mounds was like a big business back in the day. So a lot of people used to do that and sell them as curiosities. Um. 04:03.75 David Howe Oh. 04:13.24 David Howe Ah. 04:18.81 archpodnet And the founder of the Mormon Church was a part of that in new england like that's his family did that for a long time. So systematically I don't know like you said Tj was was one of the only ones to write it down or one that we actually know who wrote it down. It might be in some library somewhere in. 04:23.36 David Howe Oh. 04:36.66 David Howe Um, yeah. 04:38.48 archpodnet You know Rockford connecticut and we just don't know. Um. 04:42.28 connor Yeah, but this but this also ties like the larger world in general in science and things so you're you're seeing ah lyll Thomas Lyll Bob publish on his principle of geology where we're really starting to understand the laws of superposition. 04:43.44 David Howe Checkered. 04:45.88 archpodnet Yeah. 04:58.71 connor And the idea that geologically things have been happening basically the same for Millennia and years. So a lot of this stuff is all interconnected to this kind of expansion in science and understanding of things. Um. 05:09.78 archpodnet Yes. 05:17.24 David Howe Enlightenment. Yeah. 05:17.97 archpodnet Yeah, the the quote unquote alignment. Yeah solyel is like lo superposition ah geologic layers on top are younger than the ones on the bottom through a lot of that we're exploring like wow you know The Grand Canyon that must be. 05:18.16 connor Yeah. 05:31.36 archpodnet Ah, very fucking old for that to take place because the same processes that happened today take place in the past. So we have Lyell doing that we have darwin. Ah the figuring out. Um and the origin of species. He's able to figure out one of the aspects of evolution natural selection. He doesn't. Coin evolution I think we've talked about that in a previous episode haven't we like we went on a whole thing. Yes, which I think that's that's and that's a later addition to he uses the word evolution or evolved in like a third or fourth edition addition. One doesn't even have. 05:51.77 David Howe He the very last word of the book is evolved and that's it The rest of the book is just pigeons. 06:05.71 David Howe It's evolved but then he got flak for it so he changed it to or it's like um, hang on and like breathed by the creator or he's like urgetly breathed into a few forms or into one but then he got flak for that So he but it originally breathe by the creator into a few forms a different one? Um, yeah. 06:21.75 archpodnet Yes, um, so in the sciences we have all these different people in the in the nineteenth century like figuring out all these different laws realizing the age of the earth is much larger, much longer than um, a couple thousand years and this idea that the earth is only 6000 years old as as. 06:23.80 David Howe That's what was. 06:39.40 archpodnet Prostized by some christians that's not in the bible anywhere I think it was like a monk right? like it was it was a it was a monk who did like some calculations that were clearly off and he was like well Adam and eve must have been around six thousand years ago um yeah 06:39.85 connor Yeah I was oh what's his name? Yeah I gotta figure that. 06:45.86 David Howe It's like a calculation. 06:55.50 David Howe Didn't have enough Ram um, but also at this time is when we find ah um, the sorry um excuse me I just got. 06:57.47 archpodnet It was just not happening. Um. 07:09.11 David Howe Sidetracked I was what I was going to say was ah Thomas Jefferson this relates to the the megaphone in France we were going to talk about um Thomas Jefferson when Lewis and Clark set out to go west was like hey there's these big bones and they were sloth bones and he's like you might want to be careful because this big creature like lives out there. 07:13.66 archpodnet Yes. 07:27.72 David Howe And it's something we haven't seen before but he understood it was something like larger and I don't think he knew if it was like old or not um. 07:32.14 archpodnet Yeah, there's a couple things.