00:00.00 David Howe Apparently it's a movie called Persian lessons I'll send to the group. 00:02.17 archpodnet Okay, it it's ready. Okay, we're good. Okay Chris Rachel I don't know what happened but Zencastr shit out on that last one so we're doing that again. Not again for continuing. Um, so. 00:18.27 archpodnet I don't even know what we ended on? Oh yes, so there's a couple things going on ah at the same time right? So real quick americans weren't the only once doing mountain builder debate kind of shit the british came across the same thing at great Zimbabwe which is site in East Africa Megalithic structure they didn't believe that. 00:20.45 David Howe So I was talking about the megafauna. Um. 00:37.93 archpodnet Current. Ah African populations could have built those things because at this time Europeans are under this assumption that cultural evolution is just straight like once you ah build something or you reach a certain technological level. You keep doing that which is kind of weird because that's what the renaissance was about. This realization that the rise and fall of civilizations. They'd come out of the dark age. Yeah, the hope absolutely So they're under this this assumption that once you start doing monumental Architecture. You don't go back to it and they're also using a lot of this to justify so they come across these great things structures. 01:00.74 connor Yeah, just. 01:04.50 David Howe Reinforced by Sid Myers but 01:17.71 archpodnet On the landscape or cultures in the past. Can't believe that the original people who are living in a different lifeway than than what they see on the landscape and say well they must have killed the old people. So it's okay for us to kill them because they've done it. So like there's this really fucked up racial justification and colonial justification by all this. Um. 01:34.59 connor Do you want to do want to delve into like the specifics of Tyler and Morgan and stuff like that. 01:36.77 archpodnet Teach. 01:40.53 David Howe I It also sounds oh sorry. 01:42.60 archpodnet Yeah, yeah, so when do they come up with that. So ah Taylor and Morgan so around the same time in the eighteen hundreds as as people are coming across new things. So the sciences are like in geology and biology are coming across new things. 01:51.44 connor New things. 02:00.20 archpodnet Um, cultural anthropologists or earlier cultural anthropologists ethnographers are coming up with their own like really social scientists are coming up with ways to classify and define people. So um, one of the early ones is by this guy named Thompson who's danish. She comes up with the 3 age system. Stone age bronze age and iron age and classifies groups into those one of the more famous cultural and social forms of evolution are from um, Lewis Henley is it Lewis Henry Morgan and who's Taylor. What's Taylor's first name shut them. 02:28.71 connor Lewis Henry Morgan 02:35.35 David Howe Bartholomey set forth by Morgan and bartholome. Yeah. 02:36.40 connor Ed Ed Edward Tyler 02:38.80 archpodnet Edward Tyler yeah they they come up with barbarism civilization. Oh sorry savagery barbarism and civilization. That's where the term savages and barbarians and the civilized folk come up with now out of all these different social classifications that are presented. Europeans are always and the civilized folk like they're they're the pinnacle like there's no getting better. Yes, who would have thought everybody else is below them and they're trying to figure out like okay, where do these other people lie so that's where a lot of um, these. 02:59.86 David Howe Interesting. 03:15.96 archpodnet Classifications of people come up like there's this really and if you look at like the history of anthropology. They're always trying to classify people and usually there's like they do the rule of 3 it has to be 3 but as the field develops professionally as we continue to try to fucking classify things. There's never. A 1 size fitts all rule in the classifications. Keep it looks like a a crazy March madness chart of classifications that that just keeps getting in bracketed bracketed subcatezizations and like the field is still like that today like if you look at modern archaeological taxonomy. It's a. 03:39.33 connor Yeah. 03:51.22 archpodnet Fucking mess that no one ever wants to tackle because it's it. We all just kind of use it and know like it's It's a rule of thumb and then everything's a goddamn exception and but like no one wants to go to the work of redoing it like at all. 03:52.92 connor Yeah. 03:59.97 connor Yet. 04:01.66 David Howe Um, ah. 04:05.43 David Howe We can't use real of thumb anymore. It was on that list of words because that thing that Stanford put out it refers to like beating a woman with a stick that was not wide in her thumb. Yeah. 04:09.90 archpodnet Why can't we use rule of thumb anymore. What list of words. 04:20.21 archpodnet Um, no, that's a good Well I thought it. 04:20.22 connor Okay, I'm on a tangent. Yeah well I'm gonna I'm to I'm gonna go to build off of that. So it's really interesting because Thompson is focusing on his like stone bronze and iron age specifically on Europe and those kind of areas. 04:24.46 David Howe Um, yeah I'm just saying like let's go back and we can cut that out. 04:39.63 connor And there's not a lot of values assigned to these things. You know the classifications are very simple. There's technological changes as as people gain more technology Tyler and Morgan specifically went to other countries and did. Ethnology ethnographies and they come up with these very very um, very latent words very specific things to describe other people so these like savagery barbarism and civilization. So. It's very. Value laden because he's talking about these other cultures and not just like the predess predecessors to europeans so there's there's there's always that under underpinning of that that racism that we're talking about. Um. 05:23.73 David Howe Um, gotcha. 05:30.50 David Howe So it's like not European a or is it not European option C like he he gotcha. 05:35.10 connor Yeah. 05:35.17 archpodnet Yeah, yeah, yes, it's yeah, it's not it's not great but it's I'm going to argue that it it maybe Necessari is not the right term but this is like the beginnings of trying to understand culture. So systematically. It's still very much done. It's a eurocentric and ethnocentric worldview and it's the underpinnings for for as this this is kind of like early scientific method because people continue to like reframe and criticize this technique to to be broader broader broader broader broader. 05:56.39 connor Yeah. 06:11.41 archpodnet Um, this is just the foundations of it. It's not fantastic, but it started somewhere and that's where a lot of this social evolution starts from and and 1 of the big underpinnings of this as I mentioned earlier. It's it's this form of social construct or social classification it it. Goes up, you start as a savage you become a barbarian and then you move to civilized and there's no moving back or skipping a phase. It's very much you're going up. Yes, which we know today is is not true and thinking about culture linearly is is. 06:38.30 David Howe Yeah. 06:38.39 connor Unilinear as they as the the term for it. Yeah. 06:47.70 archpodnet Wrong and so for our listeners who just as we'll get to in a later episode when we talk about like modern day classifications categorizations or understanding of the Breadth of human civilization and culture through time and space. There's a lot of. 06:48.52 connor Yeah. 07:05.89 archpodnet Ebb flow and movement between these different spaces and like what do they ultimately mean really, it's for archeologists the ability to um, upon knowing what something generally falls into the ability to understand what that classification. Means in terms of what you can expect to see in that culture and then you still have to do the fine grain details. There's no one size fits all to this? Um, but but. 07:30.77 connor No, and it's not. It's not as simple as evolution as we see in in science. You know it's not humans are complicated and we don't evolve in one sort of way. So it's that that the evolution part is slowly dropped as you get into it because it's. 07:32.42 David Howe Ah. 07:46.41 archpodnet Yeah. 07:50.75 connor We We aren't like that I mean we have evidence of people creating mounds which is supposed to be like cities and being awesome and then eventually switching out of that and going back to you know, basic farming and things like that. It's not just it's just not the reality of the situation. 08:05.75 archpodnet Right? People human culture is at Pokemon fundamentally human culture in it poke. Yeah, it's not pokemon and like as we see through time and space. It really isn't till like the organized state when people can't not revert to something simpler people throughout time and space that we've seen through the Breadth of human. 08:07.84 David Howe Um, yeah, hey bringing it back. 08:20.56 connor Yeah. 08:25.40 archpodnet History do not like being controlled they fucking abhor taxes and do their best to avoid it and if they can see a way to what we used to call what we call now like voting with your feet just leaving people did that like people don't like being told what to do? It's really not until like modern day that we can't just not. 08:40.30 connor Ah, from. 08:44.96 archpodnet Do that. 08:47.50 connor Yeah, um I think on this at this point will ah there's a there's kind of a big shift that we see specifically and attributed to Franz Bo Asz and we will talk about that at in the beginning of the next segment. 09:00.32 archpodnet Be.