00:00.00 David Howe But of a life neuron podcast I'm here with Connor and our guest Mikenna Litinsky and we've been talking about her. Master's thesis and her work and I guess last night but we've covered what you did but I want to ask Mckenna would you find. 00:21.44 McKenna Litynski Right? So in the last segment we basically summarized that I was looking at what people were eating are they just eating large animals or just eating small animals or both. Um, so I found that based on the number of variables that I looked at it's looking more like the majority of the microphonea at laprell are natural rather than culturally associated. So let me go into that a little bit more burning. We're not seeing calcineed bone. In fact, out of like one thousand eighty burned bones only eight were calcigned so that kind of rules out that a little bit um in terms of density distributions from hearths. Um. We're seeing that the archeological distributions are deviating from a randomized model to a lesser extent at the occupation surface compared with the non-cultural elevations which were those peaks at the non-cultural elevations are. Probably impacted by fragmentation. Um and other site formation processes. So just how many bones are there and fragmented at particular locations. Um, and then based on taxa. 01:48.50 McKenna Litynski Kind of thought it was interesting. There was a statistically significant difference between taxa at the occupation surface compared to the non-cultural elevations. But that difference was largely driven by the abundance of birdbone at the cultural occupation surface. Um. That is not a cultural signature though. That's a result of taphenomic bias or natural processes that lead to a higher degree of fragmentation associated with bird Booms. So. It's not really saying oh people in the past reading birds and it's not the case at All. It's just. Ah, how these bones ended up in the ground and what processes impacted them after the fact. 02:30.97 archpodnet You said that there was like a 1 bird bone that was was it 17 pieces for 1 bird humorous or something ridiculous like that. 02:38.95 McKenna Litynski Yeah, yeah, it was a single point in the ground and there were 30 different fragments of bird bone and I have a lot of confidence that they all belong to the same bird humorous because they were all 30 bird humorous fragments. It seems. 02:50.79 David Howe Home Just got mash something. Um, so then does that. Ah what those results than does that lead you more to think that they were generalists or that they were specialists. 02:56.11 archpodnet Yeah. 02:57.97 McKenna Litynski Kind of sketchy all the same place. So. 03:13.10 McKenna Litynski That's a good question So I'm not fully discounting the concept of people possibly consuming small animals at this site just as an example in a hearth context a rabbit phalanx. Was recovered and it was completely Calsigned. So if we're thinking about the ethnographic record. Um I read a paper and it basically was arguing that it takes a young man a lifetime to achieve the efficiency of hunting a large animal. So if we're thinking about that concept. They were probably practicing on these smaller animals and maybe maybe I don't know for sure. Um, but perhaps that's why that rodent phalanx Rabbit phalanx to be specific was calcigned in that fire. 04:04.67 McKenna Litynski But that being said, the majority the large majority of the bones at Laprelle look more natural. They're showing a natural pattern on the landscape more randomly distributed compared with a very undeniable cultural signature. 04:16.41 David Howe Ah. 04:23.71 McKenna Litynski Um, so based on that lapree as a case specificific site. It's looking to be more specialist. They're looking like they are focusing in on eating that mammoth bison and Tikwis and other large ungululates at the site. Um, again I can't speak to clovis culture as a whole across North America yet because Laprelle is so case specific I mean we got. 04:51.10 archpodnet Yet. 04:53.59 David Howe Yeah. 04:56.26 McKenna Litynski We got the mammoth there right? We know that they were eating the big thing. So um, but but that being said I feel like my thesis gives future researchers the tools and the opportunities to undertake these detailed analyses focusing on my grafana. 05:02.15 archpodnet Definitely. 05:15.67 McKenna Litynski Across other sites in North America because right now as far as I know no one's gone to the level of detail that I have in microuna analysis and closed context. Um, so it just gives future researchers and archaeologists the opportunity to say hey. 05:35.55 David Howe Damn the. 05:35.59 McKenna Litynski We can do these analyses. We can try to see if Aubrey per se is actually cultural or or natural. 05:46.80 archpodnet Yeah, um, jumping off that are you going to continue this sort of research into your Ph D or where do you kind of envision that going. 05:53.24 David Howe About Study cat. 05:56.18 McKenna Litynski Yeah, I'm still kind of brainstorming about ph d topics I definitely yeah I definitely want to continue with zooms that soeology by mass spectroometry technique because there are. Very few people in North America pursuing this proteomics based method the majority of people doing zooms are over in Europe um, so the fact that I have the opportunity to learn more about this technique refine. Our methods. Um, I feel like it's very cutting edge and could contribute to the field a lot. Um, so I definitely want to keep doing that but I'm kind of fifty fifty on whether or not I want to stick with my fauna or kind of branch out into the other larger animals because like I mentioned at the beginning of this talk. Um, this podcast I the reason I came to grad school is to improve my ability to analyze and identify taxa in general so I wasn't specifically coming to grad school to look at rodents. Ah where I ended up. 07:03.10 David Howe There's the. 07:13.00 McKenna Litynski But um, my goal was to look at as broad of tax. Ah, ah, representation as possible I Guess so. 07:19.78 archpodnet Would that involve possibly other time periods too or would you are you going to stick your toe foot whole leg into the clovis debate. 07:29.94 McKenna Litynski Yeah, so I'm kind of undecided on that too at this point and whether or not I just want to stick with Clovis for my ph d I definitely want to stick with pre-contact archeology I'm kind of done with historical archeology. No. 07:43.60 David Howe You're in good company. 07:47.80 McKenna Litynski No offense to the historical archeologists out there. But it's not for me. Ah, um, so I definitely want to stick with pre-contact archeology. But um, yeah I think I'm very interested in studying. 07:51.83 archpodnet Yep. 08:05.85 McKenna Litynski Different species of make a fauna a bit more It's something I never had the opportunity to do in undergrad at all. So I definitely want to dive into that a bit more probably study birds and fish and become very efficient at identifying those I know as. A side project I analyzed a little over 3000 fish bone fragments for Bri darring associated with a site up in Alaska so that was later pre-contact and I had a lot of fun with that. So I'm just open to exploring my options. 08:36.84 David Howe Ah, for those listening nobody wants to look at fish bones and bird bones usually because why would you do that when you could look at Marath bones. So if you want to do that. You'll be very employable is um, ah yeah. 08:40.95 archpodnet Yeah. 08:53.62 archpodnet Your research will do well. 08:58.10 McKenna Litynski Bitch Bones are very hard very hard, especially because the assemblage I was working with also was very fragmented and these things were tiny so I was losing my mind because I had to get my analysis done. 09:04.19 David Howe Um, yeah. 09:06.21 archpodnet The. 09:14.59 McKenna Litynski Ah, within a semester and so I was analyzing over 3000 fish bones on top of my thesis on top of teaching 2 labs and taking another class that semester I was it was bonkers. 09:21.94 David Howe Yeah. 09:28.26 archpodnet Who are you who are you are you a real person Jesus um. 09:29.90 David Howe Your worth Eic was is your work ethic is beyond me sometimes it's a very impressive dude I was gonna ask like this summer when we were digging ah you and I dug it um to plug it again but laprell and then we dug it. Warren. 09:31.70 McKenna Litynski I Don't know maybe. 09:40.47 McKenna Litynski Thank you. 09:46.47 David Howe With Warren Mammoth sites I don't think we've talked about on here yet. Um do when you were digging this summer so like how how did I phrase this I didn't do a fieldwork based ah master season Connor did but like yours wasn't an excavation kind was just survey. 09:56.65 McKenna Litynski Um, pivot. 10:05.94 David Howe So like but kind of when you're out there knowing what you wanted to do for your thesis like when you're digging. Are you actively thinking about this stuff and like thinking about the hearths that way or is it kind of just you're out there digging. 10:22.26 McKenna Litynski I think my second year at laprell I was thinking about those questions my first year at laprell honestly I didn't know what I wanted to do for a thesis yet. In fact, it was that summer my first summer at laprele that. Todd Serville my advisor came up to me and he sat down one night and was like so Mekenna you like animal boons and I was like yeah I like animal bones and Ted was like do you like small animals and I kind of pondered and I was like um tell me more so but that was kind of. At the end of the summer so I wasn't thinking about those questions at the time I was just trying to dip my toe in clovis archeology because it was something that was totally new to me right? Precondactt Archeology was too totally new to me, let alone a 13000 year old site. But I think. After my first year of grad school knowing what I wanted to do for my thesis I was in the mindset of like okay if I see small animals at this site I'm really gonna take my time to look at them either in Tatu meaning like in the ground or in the water screens I mean David you kind of saw me picking through the water screens. 11:27.34 David Howe I was the reason I asked I was about to bring this up too is that like when I met you, we were picking through stuff at the screens and you were like amped about this like rodent feet like Femur and I was like Jesus Kid but 11:37.61 McKenna Litynski And. 11:46.60 David Howe You were really into the bones. Ah, which is like those kind of things and this is why your thesis is good. Not to say I don't care about them because I do now but like at the time it's like okay, it's a little rodent bone like cool I'm gonna go dig up a mammoth but like. You're you're looking at stuff that's like a really important question that no one has like really looked at before especially with Clovis is kind of cool. 12:15.68 McKenna Litynski Yeah, no I get that though because in my thesis I kind of talk about how a lot of researchers in the past have focused in on the larger animals because they're cool and you can learn a lot about the site from these large animals as a whole. 12:22.59 David Howe Um, yeah. 12:34.91 McKenna Litynski And so a lot of times. The small animals are overlooked. So I think that's kind of why I was hyped about I think it was a chryceta a rodent. Um Femur yeah well it was I couldn't get. 12:34.93 archpodnet Um, yeah. 12:36.25 David Howe Yeah, you you named like the genus and species of it just look you want it? not like to hey. 12:49.79 archpodnet Respect. 12:54.60 McKenna Litynski To genus and species. But I do remember it was the christ saturday family which is to the audience a huge family in rodents. It's like a million mice and rats. Yes I was very excited but I think it's because like. 12:54.62 David Howe Um, you were taxonomically thrilled. Yeah. 13:03.47 archpodnet Yeah. 13:10.12 McKenna Litynski Going back to the escavation procedures at Laprelle. The only reasons we're able to recover. The small animals is because we're doing one sixteenth inch water screening. Otherwise they would have just fallen through the screen and I would never have the opportunity to look at them. So yeah I was super excited I also remember in the augur. 13:16.12 David Howe Um. 13:25.79 David Howe I Remember that. 13:29.63 McKenna Litynski Um, because we were auguring this summer. There were fish bones. It was a prioperrkle and a so berkle and I was so hyped about that I still look at those pictures and I'm like phallet. Nice. 13:36.50 David Howe But so what's the pumper nickel fish I It was as there's a bad joke that just didn't land would continue. Um I was just asking what the the speech is what's but. 13:45.81 archpodnet Yeah, and it it. Um. 13:49.50 archpodnet I was up. 13:49.82 McKenna Litynski Wait wait say that again. 13:56.40 archpodnet And no ah I will say on on the opposite side of that you do get good data of it but is a fucking paying the ass to to screen their backbreaking. So. 14:00.82 David Howe Oh I Love brown. 14:04.56 McKenna Litynski Yeah, yeah, it is. 14:09.31 David Howe Yeah, ah. 14:10.95 archpodnet I Would even go as far as like soul breaking is borderline. 14:12.88 McKenna Litynski Yeah I would agree you couldn't get to the end of the day and you're like just get through the screen you little sediment dirt. 14:19.59 David Howe And the conversations that you have at the screen like yeah, it's just so kiss me, You're sent to prison for the day essentially like some people love to screen I don't like um I'm out um and like I was volunteering too. You guys were all getting paid. So I was just like. 14:25.46 archpodnet Um, go go. 14:30.76 archpodnet You're like delusional a little bit too. 14:33.19 McKenna Litynski Honestly. 14:37.24 McKenna Litynski Yeah. 14:37.30 David Howe I don't have to screen but I probably should Screen. It's yeah, not my favorite but the screens are super important because that's where like well once that so I guess what we're talking about guys is like you get giant chunks of dirt out of the ground dig it up put into a bucket. Bucket goes down from the site down to a place where you dump it through a screen but it's such thick set of it called Calcium Carbonate You have to push it with a hose and then scrub and scrub it and scrub it through like this wire mesh and then once that's done you put it in the sun and it will dry out. And that place within like 10 minutes gets so hot and that's where Mcnna goes in and like picks through and finds those tiny little bones and shell and where ah most of us like I would be looking for Lithics there. But um, the bone like there are a lot of bones in there. Yeah that you found So what. I mean I guess we already asked what made you want to do that. But um, yeah. 15:41.20 archpodnet Um, I had 1 more question since we're like we're like winding down. Um, what would you recommend? Do you have anything you would tell undergrads possibly even homeschooled kids who are interested in anthropology archeology and any advice you can give to them. Um. 16:02.59 McKenna Litynski Yeah,, that's a big question and I'll try to answer it to the best of my ability. Um I Think the best advice I can give to people is go after your dreams like go after what interests you. Um, and if people tell you that you can't do something prove them wrong I mean obviously don't do something crazy. But yeah, but if if you want to go into Archaeology. Don't let someone tell that tell you that you can't because it's. 16:23.20 archpodnet Within the realm of reason. Yeah. 16:36.50 McKenna Litynski And amazing field. You learn so much about yourself and the world around you. Um I think to homeschooled kids. Um, you know I know from experience that some people give homeschool kids shit for lack of better words for being homeschooled. They're like oh you lack social skills you lack the ability to go to classes and socialize in that environment and I think going into college I proved a lot of people wrong, especially because of my age I mean in undergrad I didn't talk about my age at all I mean i. Was an undergrad from the time I was 16 to 18 and now I'm 20 and finished my masters. Um, so in that respects like yeah I just feel like in summary like do what she love and what makes you happy. 17:26.41 David Howe It's a yeah, good way to put it. Um. 17:33.10 David Howe I appreciate it and Congrats again on getting your masters. It's good stuff. 17:33.69 archpodnet I'll put. Thank you? Yeah, thank you for coming on you know? ah. 17:37.26 McKenna Litynski Thank you for having me this has been so much fun. Thank you? Yeah I'm very excited. 17:47.80 archpodnet So We usually ask for any literature books things that you would recommend for people who would be interested in microphone or or stuff that you do currently do you have any off the top of your head and you can take a second to. Think about it. Look it up if you want to. 18:06.90 McKenna Litynski Yeah, let me pull up my thesis document real quick because I have some good sources in there. 18:21.40 David Howe Wow I was the recording. Ah yeah, yeah, okay. 18:24.60 McKenna Litynski Who. 18:31.64 archpodnet It's yeah for good. 18:34.89 McKenna Litynski Um, well I would recommend um buyers and again 2005 should we expect large game specialization in the late plyocene and optimal forgaging perspective on early paleo indian prey choice. So that's one that I would recommend. Um I would also recommend faring 1995 which is basically a summary of the Aubrey Clovis site down in Texas It's just a good read and to give the audience some more contextualization as to what past research has been done on microfaun assemblages and how people in the past have ah argued. Whether or not these small animals are cultural or natural. Um, oh fun read Gingrich 2019 misidentified Col Clovis age fishbone at Shawnee Minasink and how that fish bone was actually black paint. 19:33.75 David Howe Well classic who done it. 19:40.12 archpodnet O O Fish bone ah fish own its back. Plane k. 19:41.61 McKenna Litynski That's a fun one? Um, um, um, obviously ah was back anderl 2020 or 2003 Col Clovis hunting strategies or how to make out on plentiful resources. It's a good one to to to just ah counteract the buyers in ugin paper is just it falls on a different side of the spectrum. It's more of a specialization framework. Um, and then just. I don't know I would recommend just looking up Microphoneuna Archaeology klobuitetes and just see what pops up. 20:26.80 David Howe With this hang on I got this I got this? oh. 20:28.22 archpodnet It's not gonna be much but there's me more here soon. Ah, da do you want us to tell him where you are on social media or not we can keep that out. It's up to you. 20:29.20 McKenna Litynski If. 20:36.15 David Howe Okay, ill I'll do it hang on du DuW 1 2 3 Mcnna where can the audience find you on the social medias the emails and the linkedins. 20:39.93 McKenna Litynski Yeah I mean it's a private account but let people know. 20:43.85 archpodnet Okay, let's just will. 20:57.39 McKenna Litynski Sure. Yeah, so my Instagram account is private but it's m Latinsky I believe me let me confirm might want to cut this out of the script. But ah. 21:14.21 McKenna Litynski Oh MLLitinsky that's my Instagram handle and then my email is ML I t y n s k I at UWYODotEdu so that's a great way to contact me. 21:25.26 David Howe Cool, Um, and I guess yeah, that's ah, that's it for me connor. 21:36.83 archpodnet Ah, so we have to ask this because this is a life of ruins if you were given the chance again would you still choose to live a life in ruins specifically studying Michael fauna. 21:41.18 David Howe Micro ruins. 21:52.64 McKenna Litynski Yes, absolutely if I had to go back and do my thesis again I probably would. 21:53.15 David Howe Sorry I still your thunder on that I didn't I didn't realize you were building up to that I was like he missed it my bed um all right? Well we just I just destroyed conor soul and we just interviewed Mckenna Litinsky 22:01.90 archpodnet He fucks. 22:08.82 archpodnet Ah. 22:10.68 David Howe Ah, you can find her contact information in the show notes and description below and guys please be sure to rate and review the podcast provides feedback and whichever podcasting platform you're listening to on the show if you do so this week and send us a screenshot to the life neurons email Carlton we'll send you a sticker. s not here to confirm that he can or can't but he will I can't I can't promise that one. But anyway, um, yeah, mckenna been great having you? Um, yeah, look forward to what you do for your ph d look forward to digging with you both this summer at some point actually I can't dig so I'll look forward to sitting in a chair watch you guys dig. 22:35.39 archpodnet and $5 and $5 22:47.62 David Howe I'll see you guys with it. 22:53.21 McKenna Litynski Sounds good. All right? Thank you again. This was the best. 22:56.84 archpodnet Yeah, all right? and with that we are out. 22:58.33 David Howe Oh right? right? right? right? right? Yeah ah Connor Connor Connor's dying to tell us ah his joke. Okay sorry Mckenna these are all little things for the the the editors like here. Um. 23:10.20 archpodnet Joe Connor oh of course I will. 23:15.49 David Howe You hair I'll let you do it just say like hey Connor you're like don't you do a joke at the end or something. 23:18.40 McKenna Litynski It. 23:24.66 David Howe Just sorry I talked really fast. Just ask if like you've listened to the show be like doesn't don't you tell a joke at the end. 23:30.74 archpodnet Mckenna that's you ask me if I ask me to do a joke. 23:32.91 McKenna Litynski Wait. What? um. 23:38.96 David Howe I. 23:41.66 McKenna Litynski Oh okay, um, don't you tell a joke at the end. 23:45.96 archpodnet It turns out we do um why are plants so thin they are light eaters. 23:48.43 David Howe Wow, She's not impressed. Ah yeah, it's been great. We'll talk to you soon. 23:52.15 McKenna Litynski Why Oh nice? um. 23:57.39 archpodnet Clean, clean, all right I e. 24:04.88 McKenna Litynski 5