00:00.00 archpodnet And welcome back if you're still listening to our show on the all shows feed please stop. Go subscribe to our own show and finish the rest of this episode please because it helps and support our podcast mix grow. Thank you so Isaac something that we had talked about in the green room here and something that we've been discussing since we've been communicating with you. Um, kind of like you want to have a science chat about archaeology with us and we're like totally down man like that seems like a great idea and and one of the ideas that you talked ah wanted to bring a. Was our thoughts on on the younger driest impact hypothesis because you I guess on Tiktok have you have you gotten like people asking you to review it or have you done content on it already. So. 00:35.76 Isaac Russell But I talk about pleistocene megafauna a lot and every video I'm going to have a lot of people in the comments that are like matter-of-factly asteroid killed them all. They found it in Greenland and it's like it's one of those topics where honestly. 00:44.39 David I actually. 00:55.44 Isaac Russell I like got sucked into this early Americas by Graham Hancock and then eventually realized like once I started becoming more familiar and realizing the stuff he was saying that wasn't true I realized very quickly like hey you can't just trust everything you hear on Joe Rogan 00:59.18 David And. 01:11.51 archpodnet My man. 01:11.91 David Let let me ask you this though real quick. What like made you realize that it wasn't like all like based in fact. 01:13.40 Isaac Russell Um. 01:21.32 Isaac Russell Um, I mean I never I never thought it was all based in fact, but I I assumed he was someone who like with how much praise he always got I assumed he made like really really reliable claims and like the stuff he was saying. 01:27.55 David Um, okay. 01:40.78 Isaac Russell Wasn't absolutely outlandish and then I was just like watching one of his speaks area at one of the speeches one night and he talked about these. They were massive walls probably natural built or naturally made um but he was talking about how. There are some who think the denisevans were these giants that were building these massive walls and at that point I just had a full stop I'm like dude I know a lot about ancient human species like that's my wheelhouse like how much has he said about stuff that I don't know a lot about that I just like took. 02:15.59 David Yeah. 02:15.94 Isaac Russell As a fact and that that that was back before my posting days that was that was early on when I was first kind of starting getting back into this but it was just a big kind of turn of events right there where I was like okay I need to go palate cleanse everything I thought I learned about the people in of Americas and. 02:33.47 David This says a lot about you man. That's good. 02:35.27 Isaac Russell Start kind of talking to archaeologists. Yeah. 02:36.28 connor Yeah, well he does build that trust and comes off like he's this expert on these things and I can understand why without any context. Otherwise you could easily glob onto his ideas and they're fantastical and they're exciting. So I. 02:52.90 Isaac Russell Yeah, they're fun, fun to listen to at. 02:55.40 connor A hundred percent yeah exactly 02:56.16 David And it's good like ancient Egypt like like my dad loves like sitting there and watching king tut documentaries like with the mystery and like oh what is this and like it's very much that and it's like it's intriguing and then when the guy says. Yeah, the mainstream archeologists think this so they fight about this. They're like they just they're just so dumb like they don't like 1 time I was on his rogan. He's like no one has explored the Amazon the Amazon has like do you want to go through the Amazon with a machete and find it yourself dude like no like drives me crazy anyway, I'll get triggered as much as connor. 03:32.80 archpodnet I Just yeah. 03:33.61 David But like when somebody sorry but like when somebody says like the archeologists don't want you to know this it then becomes just the kid sells books. At that point you know it I don't know. 03:42.93 archpodnet Yeah I just taught my pseudo archeology lecture this past week so I'm like this is all fresh in my head because I have like a couple slides specifically on Graham Hancock and I'm so glad like I asked my students do any of you guys know who this is and they're like no I'm like all right I'm going to rant about this. So if anyone brings this up. You know what to say. 03:53.49 David I asked I didn't know that she. 04:02.77 archpodnet Cause like I have a whole spiel on why he's an ass and it's like and kind of like tying that back. There's like the three pillars of Pseudoscience strategy it's appealing to authority with a name drop and citing skepticism with the scientific process and then deflection of topics and Graham Hancock has no training in the sciences. He is a writer. And he knows how to do these things very well. What is what? what was it that Shane said Shane brought it up that um archaeology like um was it pseudoscientists build a case like a lawyer. And archeologists build a case differently. This was a long time ago like episode 37 yeah, the way that I think it was cirrudi yeah, but like the way that scientists build up a case is vastly different than how pseudosciences do it like they start. 04:37.23 David Um, okay music listen to the white stands one so it must not have been that one I don't remember okay. 04:38.29 connor I Think that checks out something like that. 04:44.11 Isaac Russell Ah. 04:54.61 archpodnet Like we yeah just it's just frustrating because it's a different way of thinking so that's why you get people. Yeah, it's a grift and that's why you get and then you look at like Eric Von dannikin when chariot of the gods and then you realize like the dude was literally diagnosed insane and like a narcissist and like out for his own. 04:58.31 David It's a grift. 05:11.99 archpodnet Glory and you're like oh this all checks out. But now we have ancient aliens So the asshole succeeded now now he got me all fired up isaac. 05:16.10 Isaac Russell You you should I I did a Tiktok 1 time calling out the history channel hard they commented on 1 of my videos 1 time then I just replied I replied to them and just the whole thing was a minute long calling them out I was hoping one of you would get triggered by the book behind me. 05:23.20 David Really. 05:33.30 Isaac Russell The Graham Hancock back there I don't know if any of you noticed it I know oh yeah, it's Hancock next to him I was gonna see if anyone would notice it no but back? Yeah, that's what I have with. 05:34.11 David I saw that John Green I didn't see the handcock I have America before and it's a is that what it like it's a it's a good book. It's compelling but like is it factual. 05:36.65 archpodnet Yeah. 05:49.13 Isaac Russell Until you dig deep like it's compelling to people who haven't like done the actual work like been out in the field and like experienced the experiences that it takes to realize when someone like that is just grifting and this to kind of segue back because. This is one of the problems with the younger driest impact hypothesis I have where it's like it is super interesting and I don't have any qualms with it I think it would like very melt that very may well could have been an impact that kind of. Caused things to get a little bit more out of their normal flow than normal and then like caused a cascading effect but I was introduced to the hypothesis by Randall Carlson alongside Graham Hancock and then it's just like I don't know enough about geology to know if. When I am buying into this stuff. Um I'm just getting fooled again like Graham Hancock was fooling me and I and I have looked at papers like there are papers supporting it besides just Carlson but I don't know it seems like it seems like a lot of that stuff is it's never as solid. Of evidence as people like to imply I feel like. 07:06.00 archpodnet Yeah, so real quick for audience the younger dryies impact hypothesis suggests that multiple extraterrestrial air bursts or impacts resulted in the younger dryus cooling extensive wildfires megafaunal extinctions and changes in human population. Um was first published in 2007 gain much criticism as the evidence presented was either not indicative of an extraterrestrial impact or not reproducible by other groups only 3 years after the hypothesis had been presented a recmium paper was published despite this the controversy continues new evidence both in favor and against hypothesis continues to be published and that's from a science. Ah, coordinatary science reviews article the younger dry impact hypothesis a quick review but blah blah blah blah hustle it all 2014 so that will be in the show notes below just as a brief idea of what's going on and. 07:44.29 David So dude you need to read commercial things at the end. That's so quick and good. 07:55.65 David Ah, um, sorry keep going if I cut you off. 07:58.87 archpodnet And I don't i' have I don't personally buy into the younger dryis impact hypothesis like I think I think in the in the green room I well I know this holiday at all which had taughtd serbell is the second author they did a really It's like 1 it's highly cited as why? ah. Input younger dry impact I thought but the hypothesis is bs that was from 2014 also in the show notes and then also like as a radiocarbon guy. There is a really good article in ordinary science by jogason at all that looks at just like okay, if we do expect meteors to blow up. Planet. How do we see that in the radiocarbon record because like you know with radiocarbon. There's a reason why past 1940 s we have to be very careful about the radiocarbon record because a bunch of atom bombs went off and absolutely annihilated the the carbon in the atmosphere. So. There's like a post bomb model and like we don't see that radiocarbon-wise like if we see a huge extraterreal impact at twelve hundred years ago well within the half-life of radiocarbon like upwards of forty five thousand years you're going to see an extreme um result. Around that time period and we just don't see that and there's there's some things that you can and especially with the wildfires right? Like if there's wildfires after this impact throwing smoke up into the air that's going to that is going to drastically change. Um the amounts of carbon that are being radiocarbonated and we just don't see it. 09:31.39 Isaac Russell Yeah, you'd think you'd really see that in like the ice still at this point like I don't know and and that's my thing with it too is like the the papers that do find evidence when you read it. It's like. 09:32.22 archpodnet So. 09:45.72 Isaac Russell Some of these were at Eleven Thousand years ago some of these were clear at sixty thousand years ago and it's like a huge compiled list of all these markers and like some people cit it as like that bona fide proof whereas when you actually read it I don't know it's never that convincing. But It's such a sexy alternative to what happened like you want it to be true and like I think that's a big part of the buy-in to. 10:04.88 connor You Yeah and it's it's one of those topics that people glom onto pyramids things like that and that. 10:14.58 Isaac Russell Yeah, you get ancient civilizations in there too I didn't think about that. 10:19.61 connor Yeah, so it's that's I if I just I'm getting I'm getting biased thinking about it because people because it's been glommed on by a certain community of skeptics and and folks who are not doing great science. So like I don't even if it was something that was truly viable I have a hard time believing in it because it's. 10:28.31 Isaac Russell The. 10:38.29 connor Forwarded and you know exclaimed by people I Just don't trust. 10:42.39 Isaac Russell That's that's what I see too whereas like it's my bias is so far in the other direction now because I'm so used to the ancient civilizations and Atlantis people in my comments section like passing it off as fact to where it's just like I don't know like. It's frustrating. It's it's frustrating and you want to have a better idea. Um, but I don't know. 11:05.67 David Um, it sexy is a great word for it. Um, and like to Connor's point to ah like it sorry just got caught up in my words, but like everyone wants to look at it makes headlines. Um like It's this big mystery and then hancock and and company make it sound like the archaeologists disagree and like they don't want this to be real but I have the evidence here and they pick cherry pick this evidence and like um, ah here in south care or in the south. Sorry I keep forgetting I moved to Tennessee but in South Carolina I was on the border like it's the river right there however toppers right? There? Um, and but fair call out. Ah but the um. 11:39.55 archpodnet And and you already even even South Carolina you were in Georgia. 11:53.65 David Like they found evidence of like the whatever those micro crystalstals are in the sky that like layer right there and it's like yes I've seen them myself. They're right there but like they use that to compare with other ones around the world that are at different dates in that same period like you're saying It's a little different and like it's cherry picking. 12:09.74 Isaac Russell So yeah, that's what I see too. So. 12:12.32 David Um, okay, um, sorry I can go on a whole long rant about this but like my my thing or I guess I'll say 2 things 1 when they cherry pick it. They're like okay well look like this this clearly happened. That explains why the megafauna died at the same time. It explains this it explains that it explains gold black e tei it explains aids like what they just like go on and on about it but then like at the same time. So I Alice track because I said aids for no reason ah hang on right? So my other point would be that. If it did happen. It doesn't necessarily mean it killed everything and changed everything so much because stuff was already warming and dying before that. Um, sorry. 12:54.69 Isaac Russell Yeah that's where I that's where I feel with it too where it's like there doesn't seem to be any evidence that this was a major impact if anything. Maybe there was a small impact and maybe it had a small effect on some populations. But It's so hard to study whether there was even a small impact because the field has been so hijacked by pseudo archeologists and the Graham Hancocks to where it's like I don't know it's it's just muddied the water so much that you can't even look really unbiased anymore. 13:18.43 David Ah. 13:26.21 connor Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly 1 stuff comes through our atmosphere and hits us all the time like that's that's like constant that's just something that's going to happen here in the past and in the future like stuff is going to hit. Yeah yeah, like those things. 13:32.34 Isaac Russell Yeah. 13:39.17 David And at the volcano last week yeah 13:41.56 archpodnet You That's why you don't look up if you guys not seen that it don't look up yet. Those. 13:43.20 Isaac Russell The view. 13:47.95 David 2 sorry I interrupted got her but um. 13:49.64 connor No, not just say it. Yeah, it's just it's ah like David said it's a sexy explanation. It's like okay, all this thing hits. Everything's wiped out and all it all connects and and sometimes stuff doesn't connect sometimes stuff is independent and and and exists in different realms. It doesn't affect everything. That's okay, that's like totally okay. 14:10.13 Isaac Russell Um, and I feel like so much with this kind of stuff like we always try to find 1 cause like that's my thing with and I've heard you guys talk about it a bit too with the overkill versus climate like realistically it's probably both like you know the climate has population struggling a bit and then. 14:24.81 David Yeah. 14:30.10 Isaac Russell People are killing them and it maybe they would have recovered but didn't recover because of the people at the time like I don't know it's just we try to find 1 thing that caused all of this and it's just so rarely that nice and neat. 14:44.29 David And that's very succinct and a lot better than I can say it. But yes that exactly um, like they both could have happened and like the way you praised it is like they maybe they could have bounced back but then humans are the extra catalyst and stuff like that. Whereas like the public when they hear these claims and stuff that or see the headlines and that's another issue too. It's like this is the only stuff that makes headlines not the all the millions of studies saying that there was no impact um like that will come out and it's just a nice answer for them that they don't critically think. Oh it could be this or it could be that because they just hear that one buzzword you know I don't know and now Hancock got an apology someone apologized to him for telling them that he was wrong and they're like well you're right on like xyorz thing and it was honest was a whole thing but like that further vindicates him and his audience and. 15:26.67 Isaac Russell Yeah. 15:41.57 Isaac Russell Yeah, yeah. 15:41.77 David I'll stop ranting. But. 15:41.89 archpodnet He reached out to a relative of mine because one of cranon Hancock's claims 1 of his books is that the pawnee star mythology is and so is because of the egyptians had it. The egyptians came here and taught us like it's bonkers. And like a relative of mine reached out and was like this isn't true and like Graham Hancock reached out to him is like well why don't I interview for the show and like this relative does not work in the culture resources division like doesn't do that stuff and he reached out to me in our Tippo and we're like stay away like that's not going to be for your benefit. Like he is going to use you as a talking piece and like put you up and like look at this little pawny person who believes in this or and I'm just like yeah like. 16:23.72 connor And on like chop and edit it up. So it's not what they're actually saying like they could say something that's like this isn't what it it believe but you can edit it to to look different. Yeah. 16:33.92 archpodnet It's whatever you want? Yeah no I don't I don't trust Graham Hancock ah there's no way. 16:38.78 David Yeah, and like I've watched multiple I've watched both of his rogans he was on a third as like for part of it. He was on like a Zoom and then I've watched several interviews with him and just like the the ah. Not the audacity would be the word but just like the boldness of the claims that he has. He's like well Aristotle talked about it. Aristotle came up with the like Atlantis and like he fails to mention that Atlantis was like also an egyptian story like everybody I don't know it like it just the guy bugs me. 17:14.82 archpodnet Because he's really good at like topics one and 2 appealing to authority and inciting skepticism in the scientific process like that's his bread and butter. 17:23.69 connor So the final thing is oh go ahead. 17:23.77 Isaac Russell And I was going to say and he's used by so many different groups like so many different groups of crazy conspiracy theorists latch onto it and then it's just like it's never ending like. Whether it's the people talking about the space impact on my megafauna videos or people talking about I don't know sea level rise like they all find Graham Hancock 17:51.61 David Ah, yeah, and several people like have commented online and like it'll go on like a thread about like the impact and how that killed all the megafauna and they're like well like how do you explain this? how I explain that and. And be like well there were still mammoths in like Europe that didn't get hit by the north american one and like they slowly died out like you know and then somebody was telling me well the other animals like were more inland like then they didn't drown in the sea level and what like I can't remember if that was my argument or theirs but it was like. 18:17.30 Isaac Russell Like what are you doing at this point. 18:24.38 David The the levels it goes to. It's like it just it doesn't have to be the answer. 18:27.21 connor Yeah I Just want to say that The only thing archeologists don't want you to know is they don't want you to have access to the direct sites who can steal stuff. We want to share our information. We want to share share our data. We just don't want people going in and looting and destroying things that we want us study. 18:27.31 Isaac Russell Yeah, yeah. 18:46.29 connor So like that's that's something we are very careful with but we yeah but we don't I mean people are hiding stuff or if they are hiding stuff. It's because they forgot about it or they were planning on doing something in the past like I don't It's not nefarious. It's just we have to protect our science and we have to protect the resources. 18:49.40 David It's good point. 19:03.18 connor Um, because there's multiple stakeholders involved that are also interested in what we're doing so that. 19:06.74 archpodnet And did you see that David Attenborough went on a whole rant against fossil collection laws recently like he's like all these laws in the uk that ah don't allow kids to pick up fossils and take them home. It's ruining their love of science. It's like David Attenborough we're trying to protect it like you should know this out of anyone. 19:25.33 David Hoof. 19:26.18 archpodnet And it was a really weird comment threat and I was just like dude you can't just take things home that you find that's just not okay. David Attenborough so anyways but isaac. It's been an absolute pleasure having you on. We're going to have to have you back on in the future because this has been fantastic and I definitely want to pick your brain more about teaching science in middle school because that that does sound. Yeah, this is this has been great. 19:48.36 David Yeah I can go on like that was fascinating to me. 19:51.41 Isaac Russell Yeah I got I got all kinds of stories I mean it's I like where I'm at because every day is different. You got all kinds of stuff going on. Yeah yeah. 20:00.44 archpodnet I can imagine man Well before we end the show isaac. What are a couple sources. These could be books articles videos that you would recommend for anyone interested in Science education and science communication and through so let me redo that because I think I repeat it tell before we end the show isaac. What are a couple sources. These can be books. 20:00.83 David Or. 20:18.95 archpodnet Articles or videos that you'd recommend for anyone interested in Science education and science communication through social media. 20:24.53 Isaac Russell So focusing more on like what I know like science communication through social media like I didn't have any books or articles. But I think what you learned from is finding people who love what they talk about and like who truly enjoy making the content they make so. Trey the explainer is one on Youtube who like I can just sit and watch his videos. Um, yeah, north o two stefan milo which stefan milo talks more about archeology which isn't my wheelhouse. So I love watching him and hearing kind of a some question. 20:47.80 David He does a good job. 20:59.93 archpodnet Yeah, we had a we had a me more with him on Instagram over the paleolithic and neolithic yeah, it's we love Stefan. 21:00.50 David He's a good friend of the podcast. 21:01.47 Isaac Russell Really. 21:05.81 Isaac Russell Yeah he's awesome. Yeah, and then Pbs eons is like the classic one where like if you are just wanting to kind of learn about evolution and maybe you missed out on it. A lot. It's a really really interesting way to just sit down and watch some videos and going back to the science communication thing like just. Watch what they do like I think the crocodile hunter like he was so good because he was so passionate and if you're passionate and you love what you're talking about other people are going to buy in and want to listen. 21:28.42 David Yeah. 21:34.52 archpodnet So excellent. 21:36.44 David Yeah, on the negative end of that you got hancock I guess but we don't have to go into it. Um, so yeah, where can our listeners find you on social media. 21:46.66 Isaac Russell So my tiktok is at science underscore is underscore real and then my Twitter is at iressell 21 and that's something I'm actually trying to get kind of more active on just because like I have had quite a few bands on Tiktok because I get kind of mass briggraded or brigaded. So. Trying to get people to my Twitter so I can always kind of like make a new account if I need to at some point. 22:10.46 David Yeah, um, cool. Ah so science is or science underscore is underscore real and your Instagram what was that 1 more time. 22:20.50 Isaac Russell My Instagram is ISA are you ss I we should restart. Yeah I honestly don't know my I was trying I don't know it off the top my head. So my Twitter is at I russell twenty one there we go. 22:25.93 David Oh sorry your Twitter I meant to ask? Yeah yeah. Um, okay, cool. Ah. 22:40.53 connor Yeah, so yeah, thank you for joining us. Um, if you were given the chance again would you still choose to teach young kids about ruins and other science topics. 22:51.78 Isaac Russell Absolutely, there's nothing better getting them interested and this is like the field to get them interested in because it's an interesting field. 22:59.86 David Cool. That's a great answer. Um. 22:59.91 archpodnet Absolutely man. Yeah dude. So we just interviewed Isaac Russell you can find isaac as Zeke Darwin on Tiktok that's at science underscore is underscore real and then on Twitter you can find him at I russell 21 so 23:16.62 David Cool, um, just want to say before we free on the segment dude. The fact that what you deal with at school. Um I just didn't even think about that until right now today and then then what you're putting out on Tiktok. You're doing a like you're doing good work and I respect that. 23:30.93 Isaac Russell I appreciate it. Ah you guys as well like David your Youtube videos are one of the ones that I was watching before I started making content so that stuff's great because. 23:34.11 David Yeah. 23:39.95 David Yeah. 23:43.51 Isaac Russell Other people realize hey they can do it too and the more people we have teaching online the better because a lot of kids are getting this stuff in school. 23:49.35 David Yeah, that's our jam all right? Ah now what happens now is Connor usually tells a a joke. Ah, do you have 1 okay. 23:58.53 connor I do I don't know if I have ever told this one though. So you're gonna have to if you start hearing something similar. Let me know so my boss walks into my office the other day he says tell me about Suzanne I'm like ah the one that got away. He's like. You're a zookeeper none of them should get away. 24:22.00 David Ah, it's usually a pun. 24:22.89 archpodnet Ah, that's great and with that we are out.