00:00.00 archpodnet Welcome to episode 96 of a life and ruins podcast reinvestige the careers of those living life in ruins I'm your host Carlton go and I am joined by my co-hosts Connor Johnn and David Howe for today's episode we are joined by Lindsay Nicole a zoologist and ticktok personality by the handle of at Lindsey Nicole Lindsay thank you so much for joining us this evening. How are you doing i. 00:20.57 lindsay I'm great. Thanks so much for having me excited to be here. 00:22.46 David Yeah, yeah, we're start to have you. Ah. 00:24.59 archpodnet Yeah, David has shared with us a couple of your tiktoks and we got super stoked about it. So we're really happy to dive into zoology tonight. So. 00:30.66 lindsay Awesome. 00:31.84 David Yeah I think I had seen a few of your tiktoks before but I didn't like know who you were and then somebody sent me like to your cat domestication 1 which I assume was like a pretty viral one and I was like okay that's actually better content than I could ever dream of making so I did to add this person. 00:41.76 lindsay Yes, thank you. 00:50.56 archpodnet And so just to kind of get us started tonight Lindsay um, what were your first experiences with zoology growing up like is this something that you've kind of naturally gravitated towards since you were a kid or discovered it really in in college and. 00:50.75 David Yeah, and from. 01:03.42 lindsay Yeah, surprisingly I wasn't a huge animal nerd growing up I. Loved you know the generic animals that everybody was into but I didn't really dive into anything out of the ordinary really until I went to college and it wasn't until maybe. A year or 2 into my zoology major that I got really into just the weird animals the extinct animals and everything so it was later on. 01:33.80 archpodnet So got you did you have a favorite animal growing up I mean like every kid has a favorite animal. 01:36.21 lindsay Yeah, lions for sure. 01:39.96 David And Huh Yeah, um, okay, well ah I guess we established that what what made you want to do like the degree in zoology or like go into that. 01:40.20 connor And respect. 01:53.49 lindsay Yeah, so funny enough because I liked lion so much I found this volunteer opportunity in South Africa to do at the end of my senior year in high school and so once I did that and experienced you know working with big cats I switched my whole. Ah path I was going to do criminology and instead I transferred to oregon state university to do zoology because I wanted to go into animal care and conservation of big cats specifically. 02:25.69 archpodnet You got you? where were you prior to Oregon State and really are you originally from the Northern Virginia it's Southern Maryland area okay oh 02:27.60 lindsay Um I was at American University in Dc yeah, not at all I'm I'm from l a and I loved american I had a couple friends already going there and. 02:27.70 David Hell yeah. 02:38.24 David Ah, oh. 02:44.18 lindsay Just wanted to check it out. Not really knowing exactly what I was going to do um but they had nothing related to zoology because you know it was more of a business school so I had to transfer. 02:52.54 archpodnet Yeah, got you? Yeah I'm from Northern Virginia right across the river so I had a bunch of friends go to american I've talked about it at nauseam you definitely checked out Ben's chili bowl though right? while you're there man you missed out next time you're in Dc Ben's chili bowl. 02:52.80 connor Um. 02:57.72 lindsay Oh nice I didn't I've never heard of it. Bummer Yeah I definitely will yeah I wasn't there long enough on those. 03:11.13 connor Yeah I think el was it Ella Ella Balwin was went to american too jetsie tune. Okay, okay, good to know. 03:11.49 archpodnet And it up anyway and Jesse Tune and me and Jesse went on a whole rant about Ben's chili bowl. But that's for for another for another time. So okay, then what? so you're so you're from l a you're in. 03:15.58 David Yeah, she did. Ah I think. 03:19.80 lindsay Um. 03:29.21 archpodnet Do you see at American Why Oregon State like what? what? Why? not any of the colleges in between the Chesapeake Bay and and an organ. 03:39.54 lindsay Yeah, um, so when I was trying to figure out where I was going to go for my zoology degree I was in l a so I went back to la for a year did some community college classes and I wanted to stay as close to home as I could just because I I love l a um. And the nearest school I believe was you see Santa Barbara and I decided I didn't want to go there because they required physics for zoology which is something I'm so not about um and the nearest school apart from that was oregon state. So I just went there. 04:10.26 David Nope. 04:15.54 David I cool do you have a lot of duck stuff. Oh wait am I am I the other one. Okay sorry I can't my roommate he was just like Oregon Oregon Oregon Oregon like everything was oregon I didn't realize it was 2 different schools. 04:17.64 lindsay Were beavers. 04:20.22 connor Yeah, come on man come on. Yeah. 04:23.57 archpodnet Aa. 04:30.98 lindsay Yeah, that was our arch nemesis. 04:33.90 David I've never been up. There was it Okay, all right take my degrees away. Ah event I don't know sports at all just like dogs. Okay, um. 04:33.91 connor Yeah, come on Andy that's that's a that's a monumental mess up. 04:37.79 archpodnet Ah. 04:42.78 lindsay That's fine I was never really into it I don't really have any beaver stuff either. 04:45.77 connor Yeah, did you? um, did you like your time up in the Pacific northwest. 04:50.19 lindsay It was beautiful I really loved it just you know for the natural aspect of it. My classes were amazing. My the resources provided by my school were incredible. The social aspect was weird because it was in a small town and I had only experienced. Los Angeles and Washington Dc so that was a huge adjustment for me and I didn't I would say I didn't really completely adjust to that while I was there but everything else was incredible. I mean my teachers were incredible. The opportunities I had were incredible. So all in all, a great experience. 05:26.60 archpodnet So excellent. So you know we're coming at this from anthropologists. So we know exactly what it takes to do an anthropology degree. So what kind of courses are you were you taken at at Oregon State University for zoology like were there other disciplines that you had to dip into or is it primarily like. 05:26.11 David So cool. 05:42.26 lindsay It was definitely biology focused. Um I had a lot of flexibility luckily just because of the zoology program that Osu offered so I ended up kind of gravitating towards the evolution and paleontology classes and taking. 05:43.50 archpodnet Biology focusedcus. 05:59.86 lindsay Every one of those classes that I possibly could. But additionally because I was there because I wanted to work with big cats I was taking all the conservation classes mammamology classes as well as you know the vertebrate invertebrate zoology classes. But other than that it was pretty much a biology degree. 06:18.25 David That cool I think I took one zoology class in grad school. Actually it was behavioral ecology but I definitely really wanted to do yeah it was one um zoology in general because I've just always obviously been really into animals. But. 06:27.45 lindsay I'm nice. 06:36.94 David Um, kind of bummed I Never like did any so I tell this all the time to people. But I mean they know I took my elective science as like astronomy because I thought itd be cool to like no star stuff if I wanted to do my and archeology which was the dumbest decision I ever made in my life. So there' was a lot of math and I should have just done zoology anyway. 06:53.78 lindsay Oh yeah. 06:54.97 archpodnet And yeah, that was my big thing too astronomy rather than learning about stars. It's like physics and I was like man this is not what I wanted This is not what I signed up for yeah, exactly. 06:56.83 David As all tangent. 07:00.96 lindsay Not what you signed up for yeah oh man. 07:03.20 David I'm not trying to calculate the speed of light I want to touch frogs. So. 07:03.84 connor Oh see I see I took conservation biology like biology 1 on 1 which was super interesting and there was aspects of that I could definitely see myself studying in the future and I actually really wanted to get in those upper division courses because that's where you got the dinosaurs and all that kind of. Stuff, but you really needed to build up the repertoire to get to there because I'd probably be like way over my head. 07:25.30 lindsay Totally yeah, that's that's the annoying thing about those types of electives is you don't really get to the good stuff for a few years so you really have to build up for it. So if you don't have the opportunity then yeah I had a couple classes like that too for sure. 07:37.33 David I am. 07:41.67 archpodnet Right? Yeah, what's one that stands out to you? yeah. 07:44.85 lindsay I would say um I mean my evolution classes I built up to the paleontology classes. So um, my evolution classes were mainly focused on general mechanisms. Um, while you know once I got into paleontology it was like. Animals. Let's talk about the you know different geologic time periods and everything kind of getting more specific into extinct animals how you know vertebrates developed and everything which is what I really wanted to learn about from the beginning and so it took a few years to get there and I'm so glad that I. Kept with it. 08:25.34 connor It Yeah, it really can be just a slog and unfortunately it takes a lot of time and money to get to that point I know that ah probably all of us here us anthropologists archeologists got like our senior level Junior level courses where we're like okay this is what I want to do but before that I have to do. 08:38.30 lindsay Yeah. 08:42.88 connor Cultures of the whole world and all the cultural anthropology which is interesting for some folks but not not so much for us strict Archeology Science folks for sure. Um, did you have a favorite dinosaur or a favorite I should say a favorite extinct mammal. 08:47.51 lindsay Um, you absolutely. 08:59.68 David And vertebrate. 09:00.72 lindsay Um, they favorite extinct vertebrate I would probably say Paris Air ethereum 09:02.41 connor But but. 09:07.50 archpodnet So what is that. 09:07.53 David I For the audience who doesn't know including myself what is that. 09:10.91 lindsay That is a giant Extinct Rhino a Hornless Rhino they were the largest land mammals to ever exist. Yeah, so they kind of looked like a weird mix between an elephant and a giraffe and a Rhino but they were I. 09:18.84 David Ah, the big thing. There's a giant. 09:30.41 lindsay I think they were twenty six feet tall and just the thought of that when I found out about them I just I wanted to see that in person so bad and I still do but they're they're my favorite. Yeah. 09:38.00 David Um, yeah, hu there's a big um giant outline of one like you know those like statue like flat ones at the museum of natural history in the vertebrate section or verte bit paleinthalette and it's like I didn't really know I thought. 09:50.80 lindsay E. 09:56.63 David Think they were in the movie ice age and I remember seeing like Ka I was familiar with that like form of creature. But then I like looked up at it and I was like oh my god and yeah, it was like a rhino elephant with like a giraffe neck kind of yeah, that's a really app description. 09:59.83 lindsay Yes. 10:05.53 lindsay Um, yeah, the other or. 10:07.50 connor I don't think that was to scale an ice age though I don't think because if it was like really to scale this little like sloth thing talking to like this twenty six foot tall creature I don't think they really would have done. Well yeah. 10:23.27 lindsay That's true. Yeah. 10:24.91 David Um, so I guess in like the theoretical what kind of stuff. Do you learn in like those vertebrate or like paleontology classes because it's a lot of stuff that you can't observe ancient animals in their like natural habitats. But you can like do the fossils. So like. 10:25.16 connor Interesting. 10:38.74 lindsay Um, yeah. Um, my favorite paleontology class went into different processes of evolution in different groups of Animals. So The development of specialized teeth or the development of Mammals. Um. 10:43.58 David How's that kind of work and. 11:03.00 lindsay From synapses so kind of just going through those processes while also showing different extinct species along the way. Um, and then my teacher was cool because she she went into you know, just different things that she knew. We would be interested in like why whales got so Big. Um and and kind of just would take these tangents in different class periods that didn't necessarily follow along the scale or the the time periods and so you know we we initially started with the Cambrian animals and then. And of went through the different periods that way but then would kind of go on these tangents and yeah. 11:50.88 David I um, yeah so I didn't take any geology classes. So it's like that stuff I really wish I know but I learned through like Pbs eons and stuff like that. Um, you mentioned the whales like. 12:03.70 archpodnet So did he freeze for everyone or is he did he? Oh yeah. 12:05.87 lindsay Um I think yeah, he's frozen up. 12:09.25 David I assume it's because they're huge and in the ocean but like did they just expand because like is there like a ah law with that kind of like Bergman's law or something. 12:20.22 lindsay I'm not hearing you. 12:20.47 connor Yeah, not yeah, we're not hearing you David I think he was gonna ask why whales got so big. 12:20.52 archpodnet At. 12:21.33 David I It is probably my wi-fi I will refresh. 12:27.15 lindsay Um, if ah. 12:29.68 archpodnet Ah, yeah, it's not a good head all right. 12:32.45 lindsay Do you want me to wait to answer that. Yeah, okay. 12:33.52 connor Okay, once like yeah one second I'll so why did whales ultimately get so big. 12:37.53 David Okay, can you guys hear me. 12:42.55 lindsay There are a couple different hypotheses the one that I learned about in that class was focused on the end of an ice age I can't remember the exact timeframe of it but it wasn't It wasn't the most recent ice age I Want to say it was the one before then um. That you know as all of that ice was kind of pouring into the ocean it was bringing these minerals and those nutrients from the land masses into the oceans which made Phytoplankton explode which made Zooplankton explode which just became an all you can eat Buffet. Or whales and so there were really no limits on their size. How big they could get because they didn't have gravity weighing down on them. 13:30.25 archpodnet You got you? Well undergrad is so fun in the courses. But I guess kind of tying this this all back together. Lindsy what was the game plan after you got your degree you go for you go to transfer to a different school you were pursuing the zoology degree. What were you. Originally, what was the game plan postgrad. So. 13:49.83 lindsay The original game plan was to work with big cats and I did do that right? after I graduated but I graduated in 20 so it was right? You know in the middle of everything which didn't give me a lot of job opportunities. Um. Also because I wasn't really ready to leave home at that point with everything going on. Um, so I found an internship in Minnesota at the wildcat sanctuary and I was there for six months and I was going to continue. With animal care with big cat care specifically. Um, but I ended up getting hurt at that job. Not none of the animals hurt me I just overworked myself and I still have a pretty bad back from it. So I'm taking a break from that for now and I'm hoping to kind of go more into. Evolution paleontology maybe in some educational aspect of it maybe eventually I'll go back to working with big cats. But I also realized that it was just a lot of work and given that was my only experience in the us was. In Minnesota where most of the work was you know preparing for the cold. Um, so maybe it would be different elsewhere. But um, yeah, it was. It was pretty tough on my body. 15:13.85 archpodnet So I can imagine can't big. Cats can get covid right? like that's been a concern with zoos. 15:17.79 lindsay Yes, yeah, um, some of the cats did get covid when I was there? Yeah, um, we we did a covid test on one of the tigers. It was you know released to the public for public knowledge. But. 15:25.63 David Well. 15:37.50 lindsay It was scary because we didn't know what it was at first. Um there was wheezing there was coughing we thought maybe it was moldy pay which would have been worse because that could lead to neurological damage. Um, but then we kind of determines that. It was covid after the test and just because of the symptoms luckily none of them. You know, passed away. They all healed from it but it was it was scary for sure. 16:05.44 connor How does one give a tiger a Covid test. 16:09.87 lindsay So The tiger that we gave the Covid test to already needed to be put under for a different reason I Honestly can't remember what it was she just needed to be checked for something so while she was you know. Passed out. Ah we did the nostril test. 16:33.59 connor Yeah I could I was just envisioning in my head like you know trying to stick like a stick up a Tiger's nose has got to be ah, an easy way to to get hurt. 16:42.51 lindsay Um, yeah, exactly yeah would have been bad. Um. 16:45.31 David Daunting. Um, do can you guys hear me? Yeah, okay, do do we know if like because I wondered that too and I don't think dogs can get it I know one got it at some point I don't know if it's like widespread a Gorilla got it. But. 16:57.40 lindsay Have. 17:03.16 David Do they lose their smell I Never like kind of looked into it. But I wonder if like a cat or like a dog kind of lost its smell be a bummer. 17:07.68 lindsay I Don't yeah I don't know if there's any specific research on it. But I mean of the cats that did get covid at some point pretty much all of them just lost their appetite and so I don't know if it was because they couldn't smell it. Taste it maybe or just because they weren't feeling well but that's all I Really know about that aspect. 17:32.71 archpodnet I I had this like mental image of like caretakers asking the survey questions to big cats like can you taste your food. No can you can you smell anything and just like taking surveys from big cats. But all right? well. Um, that's it for segment 1 We'll be right back with segment 2 and we're going to get into more of Lindsay's work with big cats because she's done some other stuff prior to being a minnesota that we really want to dive into so stay tuned. We'll be right back.