00:00.83 archaeoteacup Welcome back everybody so something that I usually like to do in these episodes is look at the most asked questions on the internet about this object courtesy of Google search auto um, in order to see what other people might want to know about. 00:11.24 Tehya _TK_ Um, is. 00:15.99 archaeoteacup Objects that we talk about sometimes this yields very few results which I'm always slightly disappointed in because people apparently don't know about these objects but actually have have a lot of questions about them. So that's quite nice and seeing as we have Tk here I thought this is the perfect time to find the the answers to all of your burning questions. So. 00:18.99 Tehya _TK_ I. 00:34.70 archaeoteacup Ah, the first question actually was letsua pronunciation which we've we've dealt with that's that's done but the second question is what does netsuka actually mean and I have seen on your Instagram that you've been acing all of your japanese exams. So I imagine you'll be able to tell us. 00:38.40 Tehya _TK_ Um, yeah. 00:49.95 Tehya _TK_ But yeah, so ah netskay so is made up of 2 different kanji net and skay so neh is not often used. It is a kanji that means root and then skay is used quite often like. 00:58.12 archaeoteacup Okay. 01:04.56 archaeoteacup Okay. 01:09.88 Tehya _TK_ Get root as the verb which means to a fix. So it's a route one uses to affix different things. 01:12.65 archaeoteacup Here. Interesting which relates a little bit because I sort of mentioned it slightly in the in the time travel segment but indeed how I was also really curious when I first saw these amazing things so that the took ah in in the museum somewhere and I thinking what are these? These are so cool. 01:31.45 Tehya _TK_ Um, I'm here like the need. 01:37.13 archaeoteacup And I had never heard of them before and I was really struggling to work out how they were war. Um, but what was I correct in my time travel Sometimes I'm correcting these things is sometimes the guest goes. Yeah, so not really, this is actually what but but do you know how they were worn or how they would have been used. 01:42.63 Tehya _TK_ Um. 01:52.90 Tehya _TK_ Um. 01:55.78 Tehya _TK_ Yeah, yeah, so um, basically the Netscap works in 1 of two ways. So one. It's a counterweight for the little bag that's called sagamonol so um, kimonos are beautiful. And they are amazing and I love to wear them. However, ah the the men of the edo period which is the time period that we're talking about right now suffer from the same fashion ah tragedy that women often face now which is a lack of. 02:30.25 archaeoteacup Ah, ah, date of my life. 02:30.46 Tehya _TK_ Pockets but right the feeling of finding a dress that you like that has pockets. There's nothing like it Meanss which is less exactly so in in loopu. 02:39.60 archaeoteacup Ah, right have you seen all those memes which it's like and it has pockets. 02:46.23 archaeoteacup Okay. 02:49.78 Tehya _TK_ Of pockets most japanese men who were of some sort of affluence which we can talk about that a little bit later um had a sagemono sagamon is like a little pouch sometimes it was a little box and it was attached to the Netske which was attached to a little string. And so the netscap was either tucked through the sash called an obi and used as like a little stopper like a little counterweight to stop the sagamono from like falling out or there was another type of Netsgay which was more like a little hook. 03:12.36 archaeoteacup O. 03:27.42 Tehya _TK_ So if you just imagine like a fish hook but way more pretty rather that would hang on the um from the inside would hang on the little obi and yeah, that's that's how they were used. 03:28.82 archaeoteacup Oh yeah. 03:44.50 archaeoteacup Interesting which actually makes a lot of sense are they like ah are they still used in that way today as well because that seems very practical. 03:51.62 Tehya _TK_ Yeah, they're super practical so there is a very small community of people in Japan that still wear kimono on a daily basis and usually they're in the entertainment industry as in like um, like. 03:57.56 archaeoteacup E. 04:05.41 archaeoteacup Ah. 04:07.78 Tehya _TK_ They do either tourist thingies where they you know, put people in Kimono or they do tea ceremonies or something like that some Kimono Sellers wear Kimono every day some people that work at very high end. Um. 04:10.10 archaeoteacup O. 04:19.93 archaeoteacup Ah. 04:26.13 Tehya _TK_ Japanese restaurants will wear Kimono not as their daily attire but as their work attire but there are some people who do wear Kimono every day. So those people still use them. Yeah. 04:28.24 archaeoteacup Ah, hello. 04:31.88 archaeoteacup And. 04:37.27 archaeoteacup But okay and then they'll also have to interesting. Okay, yeah, that's very cool. Oh nice. So they're also still still being made as well. 04:47.23 Tehya _TK_ They are still being made. Um, there are few you know traditional craftsmen and and women um now. But ah, it's actually it's so interesting because there is a. Traditional art school in in Kilto that um is responsible for training a bunch of different craftspeople in traditional japanese art and there is a Netske department. 05:16.55 archaeoteacup Ah. 05:20.15 archaeoteacup A departed Wow. Okay, Wow. Okay. 05:20.15 Tehya _TK_ At that university in Kyoto and a lot of people. Yeah there's a department. So um, a lot of foreign people. A lot of people who are not japanese will come to this university. To learn these traditional arts which is super duper cool. 05:40.81 archaeoteacup Itristic Oh so it is also open because I'm I don't know I'm thinking of. For example, the Maori culture where you have the oh what are they called the power necklaces and technically only a Maori craftsperson is allowed to carve the jade. 05:50.95 Tehya _TK_ Um, ah. 05:56.60 archaeoteacup Power like anyone can do the bone one but only a maori is allowed to do the the jade is that but that's not the case in Japan there's also not a kind of taboo with materials or anything like that. 05:59.36 Tehya _TK_ Um, yeah. 06:05.63 Tehya _TK_ Yeah, no so Japan has a really interesting culture where people are just excited that you're excited about japanese but yeah, it's it's really cool. So there's even with um. 06:15.59 archaeoteacup Fair. Okay, yeah. 06:23.19 Tehya _TK_ You know, like religious things. Ah people are very open about sharing that. Not all people granted but there are no like rules against people who are not Japanese learning all aspects of Japanese culture. Yeah. 06:38.55 archaeoteacup Interesting. Okay, well yeah, oh and I'm really I mean I need to look up this this I'm going to find it and put it in the show notes this department of that met carving because that's incredible that there's a whole department I'm I'm. 06:42.31 Tehya _TK_ Cool. 06:51.40 Tehya _TK_ Um, yeah, yes, so it's like it's really cool. So it's like the carving department and within the carving department. There is the Netsca department. Yeah. 07:01.23 archaeoteacup Wow. Okay, interesting which what are the sorry don't know carryo carryo. 07:05.93 Tehya _TK_ Yeah, so you can go ahead. Sorry so you can anybody can enter into this University but the only caveat is you have to speak japanese. 07:17.48 archaeoteacup Rights yeah, which is quite a yeah like yeah although to be fair I went to school in Australia for a while and there the 2 options were french or japanese um, which because I guess it's it's equally close to both lands right? so. 07:28.98 Tehya _TK_ Um, whoa. 07:32.76 archaeoteacup It was so I did do 1 year of japanese when I was like 13 but I can't remember I don't what could I try to think now if I could remember any phrase of a dent Denwar Bungo is that so yes, exactly which sounds. 07:39.33 Tehya _TK_ But. 07:45.36 Tehya _TK_ Ah, Den Wa Bungola What's your number. 07:50.79 archaeoteacup Really suss that. That's the only phrase I could remember but I swear it's very innocent. It's just because we have to learn all of the you know what's your name where do you come from and then weirdly, what's your telephone number because apparently that's quite important. But anyway so and I can check out what was it it she needs son she gorroco. 07:54.90 Tehya _TK_ Um. 07:59.50 Tehya _TK_ Um, yeah, yeah, ah. 08:07.10 Tehya _TK_ Um, yeah, ah so close nanahachi your stoke clothes. You did a great job. Ah, ah. 08:08.93 archaeoteacup Ah hat she na no I can't remember the rest ah hat she thought which. You know is a really important message everyone listening in who can't speak Japanese that was you know a prophet Prophecy really philosophical. It wasn't me just counting very badly to death Anyway, back to the net suka. So Unfortunately anyone who's interested in carving. 08:36.92 Tehya _TK_ Um. 08:39.75 archaeoteacup Ah, learning about carving the will indeed have to to speak japanese which you know if you're really interested in learning about the culture that's essential anyway I would argue in knowing kind of a bit about it and so they're still made today but are they I guess because they've been around for so long I mean I imagine they were even around before the seventeen hundreds that was sort of a random. 08:41.11 Tehya _TK_ Yeah, to learn. 08:57.91 archaeoteacup Date that I picked because it seemed to be within the period that they did exist. But I guess they were around for even longer I mean are they considered sort of valuable today because of that like is it or is it just sort of something that it's like oh yeah, it's ah like a beltbuckle or something you know it's just ah, a functional item. 09:03.20 Tehya _TK_ Um. 09:15.27 Tehya _TK_ Ah, yes, and no so so um, there are some Netsga that are just there for like tourists. They're mass produced. They're made of plastic and they're modeled after famous netsgay. 09:21.80 archaeoteacup Um. 09:23.69 archaeoteacup M. 09:31.20 Tehya _TK_ Um, so they're like what like five bucks a pop or ten bucks a pop or something like that. However, there are some that are incredibly expensive and ah some that are they had to be taken out of circulation. 09:31.54 archaeoteacup Okay, right? ah. 09:40.26 archaeoteacup Okay. 09:48.72 Tehya _TK_ From collectors because they're made of ivory. Yes, so they had to be relinquied relinquished is that the right word relinquished I Believe to? yeah yeah. 09:51.23 archaeoteacup O. 09:59.46 archaeoteacup Ah, we may mean I would say that but I don't know trying to think of another word. 10:06.51 Tehya _TK_ Ah I believe it was like in 2013 when there was like a whole big thing about ivory and the ivory trade. Um, that people were given a certain amount of time to like relinquish their ivory goods their ivory products too. 10:13.35 archaeoteacup Um, yeah. 10:25.32 Tehya _TK_ The the nearest museum I don't know um the. 10:26.87 archaeoteacup Interesting. But that's because I I feel like when I learn about it Anyway, there was something like if it had been collected before a certain date then it was considered kind of okay because it was during the. 10:42.12 Tehya _TK_ Um, yeah, yeah, yeah, so I don't know if if it was no matter no matter when it was but I know there was a big reclamation of Ivory and the most expensive. 10:43.37 archaeoteacup The legal time but that's it every any no matter what it was. You had to give it back in Japan like in. 10:53.90 archaeoteacup Um, okay, okay, interesting. 11:00.19 Tehya _TK_ Save um nets gay that's sold in the U K was let me check my notes really quick. Um. 11:10.90 archaeoteacup Who talk aboutelves everybody. Yeah. 11:16.20 Tehya _TK_ The most expensive one yeah was sold in the UK for four hundred and forty one thousand three hundred u s dollars in December of 2022 and that was made of ivory and it was sold in the U K and there was like some special rules about. 11:23.75 archaeoteacup Wow. 11:35.30 Tehya _TK_ Selling it because it was made of ivory like it had to get approved about something or whatever. But yeah, that's the most expensive Netska ever purchased right? Yeah, yeah, you want to guess what it was. 11:35.28 archaeoteacup Ran the her. 11:44.94 archaeoteacup I Mean that is crazy and it was just a little and there's not big either really like they sort of fit in your head. What is it is it something like phallic. 11:54.69 Tehya _TK_ Guess Guess what it was guess what the the the nets pay form was. No, no, It's just it's just so silly something cute and so silly and so human it's wild a shaggy little puppy dog a teen. 12:04.23 archaeoteacup No something cute. 12:12.26 archaeoteacup Like ah i't know it't know tell me how me do well to 400000 like goodness. Ah. 12:18.41 Tehya _TK_ Tiny little puppy talk I think it's like four centimeters tall and like three centimeters wide or something like that does teen attended into a puppy. 12:29.54 archaeoteacup Wow Oh my goodness. Do you know where when it was from maybe was it particularly old or okay, okay. 12:37.82 Tehya _TK_ Um, yeah, yeah, it was from the edo period um, but there wasn't a precise date on it but um, somewhere between the 16 and the seventeen hundreds rent while. 12:45.64 archaeoteacup Okay, that I couldn't I mean to guess me but still like but that's a lot for a little carved puppy dog like I mean I'm sure they could have found a little carvic of a puppy dog somewhere else for a pitch. 12:54.38 Tehya _TK_ Right. 13:01.30 archaeoteacup But then you wouldn't have the history. You wouldn't have the story. So I guess you know I can I could kind of understand it. But and so I mean that's how they're perceived in the in the present. But I guess in the past if if it was just the standard way to wear your little the little pouch that you mentioned I'm afraid I've forgotten what it's called um, the little pouch or the little bag and what's ah. 13:02.62 Tehya _TK_ Yeah, but. 13:18.91 Tehya _TK_ Um, that did. 13:19.87 archaeoteacup Would would they also I mean I guess they wouldn't have been perceived as valuable back then or kind of special I don't know status objects or anything like that or would they. 13:28.93 Tehya _TK_ Yeah, so um, the the history of the Netscape is pretty cool so in in terms of like a status item. So at the beginning of the edo period and a little bit before around the beginning of the sixteen hundreds. Um, they started to be made for the merchant class. Um during the edo period there was relative peace right before that was the warring states period. So everything was like calming down people started to like you know, do. Merchant thingies and trade and art was bringing up. 14:07.26 archaeoteacup Um, you can tell you're a history teacher. It's ah sorry all right right? right? Yeah, yeah, don't get too technical. It's ah. 14:12.50 Tehya _TK_ Ah, Merchant and you got to keep those kids interested. Um, thank you for understanding me. Ah. 14:23.22 archaeoteacup Yes I know what you mean I know what you mean. 14:29.72 Tehya _TK_ People. Ah you know people were starting to make more money and move around and have things that they needed to carry So the nets gay were created to hold up the sagemon. Not those little pouches and at the beginning they were just like very simple. 14:43.20 archaeoteacup Sakibodo that was it. Is. It. 14:48.84 Tehya _TK_ Really, really simple things and then when the Merchant class started to get more money more money than the samurai class because the samurai class were on fixed incomes and not all of them were making lots of money but the merchants. 14:59.93 archaeoteacup Ooh. 15:05.54 archaeoteacup Um, it just a oh not Saurai things. Ah. 15:07.52 Tehya _TK_ Were able to make a lot more money because they were doing merchanty things and that's not a fixed income not samurai things So Their their income was like going up so they started wearing more fancy clothes and more. You know, flashy things more silks instead of cottons more inrant patterns on their stuff and then Netscay also started to become more fashionable but then the tokugawa shogunate not Important. You don't need to know who that is. 15:32.58 archaeoteacup Her. 15:43.87 archaeoteacup Okay. 15:44.65 Tehya _TK_ Ah, for this situation just know that him him and his group of samurai were like we don't like it that you guys are dressing all nice and fancy and we're over here. Not fancy at all. So no more fancy things for you. You cannot. 15:51.22 archaeoteacup Okay. 16:02.90 Tehya _TK_ But wear any fancy things you can only wear XYZ you know the fancy stuff is for us samurai. So what happened is netzeke became kind of like the secret way to flaunt your money. 16:09.46 archaeoteacup It you soon. 16:20.76 Tehya _TK_ Does that make sense. 16:20.81 archaeoteacup Um, ah he could be like yes I know I'm just wearing plain cotton but check out my little puppy dog here and ah the euphemism. 16:24.17 Tehya _TK_ Um, yeah, exactly exactly exactly look at my perfect. No no, not that one. Um. 16:37.30 archaeoteacup Ah, yeah, okay so it was yeah sort of a yeah, a subtle a subtle hint at the wealth I Guess interesting. 16:40.37 Tehya _TK_ Um, exactly exactly subtle hints at the wealth. They you know people humans are are like middle school students. All humans are like middle school students in my opinion like. You tell them not to do something. They're going to find a way to do that thing and they're going to do it so creatively and so annoyingly well that you're going to be like ah I can't I can't punish you for this because you're doing exactly the thing that I said that you. 16:58.16 archaeoteacup Right. 17:13.58 Tehya _TK_ You shouldn't do but in a way that I didn't anticipate. Ah so yes, exactly exactly. 17:15.18 archaeoteacup Do fighting the loophole always but that's and I mean does that mean then that people were kind of if they weren't necessarily allowed to buy them from places where people making their own. Ah, that's gay or were they still being carved by like so or were they ever carved by specialists actually or were they sort of homemade things. 17:35.34 Tehya _TK_ Yeah, yeah, they ah some sometimes at the beginning there were you know there were homemade things but they were usually carved by specialists and because the netsq didn't fall under the rules for fashion. They were able to. 17:44.19 archaeoteacup Ing. 17:51.71 Tehya _TK_ Be made by specialists and made really extravagant, really amazing like really cool stuff. Yeah, yeah, yes. 18:01.97 archaeoteacup That's very nice and and made from so you've already mentioned Ivory I believe some were ba from wood that I had seen with their other like those kind of main materials where there was there anything else. 18:11.58 Tehya _TK_ Yeah, so pretty and ah, pretty much any carvable item was used to make the netskay so Ivory would stone um some metals were used and also nuts like little nuts. 18:25.17 archaeoteacup I Was gonna ask? Yeah oh oh. 18:30.54 Tehya _TK_ People used little tiny nuts to make cool little nets gay right? Yeah yeah, some of them were cost some of them were were carved. 18:36.52 archaeoteacup That's really cute and yeah, interesting with that with the metal so that would have been cast I Guess the metal. 18:47.52 archaeoteacup Ah. 18:47.53 Tehya _TK_ Um, some of them. There's like there's one really famous one. Um, that's more on the contemporary side that is um, ah what are those big ground peppers I think they're called ah. 18:53.57 archaeoteacup Okay. 19:01.81 archaeoteacup Oh well. 19:04.90 Tehya _TK_ Yeah, they're they're like these big orange pepper looking things. Um, that are really famous in Japan and there's one that's made of like glass and metal and has like a semi precious stone in the center of it. That's like pretty famous. 19:12.86 archaeoteacup Ah, hey. 19:21.94 archaeoteacup Ah, her her very cool which I guess and I mean but I suppose not everything could have been used as a that's okay, they have like a special thing thing that makes them and that's okay, rather than just a cool carving like a glass. 19:24.50 Tehya _TK_ Um, so yeah, that's really cool. 19:37.52 Tehya _TK_ Yeah, yeah, so so the difference between just like a regular little tiny statue and annetteske is basically the 2 holes at the bottom that's it. Yeah. 19:38.72 archaeoteacup But but. 19:47.22 archaeoteacup Makes sense. Yeah because you're going to attach the the cord to have attached the and I forgot it again sogging Board Nose hook So get there get there I can add it to my Japanese repertoire and ask for their phone number count Very badly to tend and say hey this random little pouch that probably isn't in use anymore. 19:52.49 Tehya _TK_ Yeah, so gimo. No, you're doing it. You're getting it. 20:08.89 archaeoteacup Ah, but very cool and ah just to double back a little bit because at the moment at the beginning we mentioned men are the ones that are using the the nets K Um is there A reason that women weren't were they not allowed to use them was it kind of a gender divide thing. 20:10.45 Tehya _TK_ Now. Yes. 20:23.91 Tehya _TK_ Um, it was less that they weren't allowed to use it and more that Kimonos the the kimonos that women wore ah have long sleeves so the the men have long sleeves. But there's a lot of inner um inner kimonos. 20:30.70 archaeoteacup Yeah. 20:39.71 archaeoteacup Oh. 20:41.52 Tehya _TK_ So if if you picture Kimono It looks like a t with like a really fat top part. Um and inside of those sleeves they could be used as pockets. Um, because yeah, it's just a big giant pocket. So that's where. 20:46.26 archaeoteacup Ah. 20:57.25 archaeoteacup Yeah. 21:00.59 Tehya _TK_ A lot of women would carry their stuff. Um, but some women did use so ah Sagamono and the netskay but it wasn't it just wasn't as popular. 21:09.30 archaeoteacup Okay, but that's amazing that the Japanese culture got it right? Then the men were the ones without the pockets and the pockets ah listen up rest of the world. This is how it should be. 21:13.55 Tehya _TK_ Um, yeah, yeah, right I get it together guys. 21:25.40 archaeoteacup Ah, ok, well, we're going to have another very quick break So that those who are listening in can have an opportunity to top up their tea but we will be back soon.