00:00.00 archaeoteacup Welcome come back everyone so we are going to have a look as always at the most asked questions of the internet all about the sut who helmet specifically I was Goingnna do it about the something who burial. But I thought let's get specific. Let's talk about the Sutton who helmet and actually there's a surprising amount of. Ah, questions about this probably thanks to the film. The dig I guess that sort of garnered interest in in this burial on this object. So the first question that always came up is what is the Sutton Hugh Helmet made of can you enlighten us tash. 00:28.84 NATASHA BILLSON Yes, So I do love the stuff in here. What I'm very excited about this I'll try to as concise as possible for you listeners out there. What you to imagine that the helmet is primarily made of iron. But what really sets it apart are these decorative elements. It's adorned with panels of tinned Copper Alloy sheeting which are then stamped with these intricate patterns which include animal interlace and Warrior motifs. But for me, it's those motives that are fascinating. There's. Dancing Warrior and the fallen warrior scenes which are so vivid then there's the this crest running over the top of the helmet which is made of iron with this guiltilts animal terminals and those animals even have Garnet Eyes. So just imagine like. 01:08.45 archaeoteacup Who. 01:22.72 archaeoteacup Um, a Wow yeah. 01:25.36 NATASHA BILLSON Youtube must have had like in its actual state which you do see in a reconstruction piece in the british museum I think it's in gallery forty one. 01:31.57 archaeoteacup Okay I was about say there's a re I Thought that was a reconstruction because I remember when I was younger I always thought that was the original thinking. Oh my goodness is so well you know so well put up but no, no. 01:38.27 NATASHA BILLSON So yes I know you know there's a funny story I was I was recently at the British Museum showing some friends like the the best bits like had 30 minutes and I explained the suston who helmet and they were looking at the real one and it's my mistake that I was explaining it did it and they looking and this's like how how does this survive and I'm like what. 01:48.84 archaeoteacup Ah. 01:57.88 NATASHA BILLSON And then it was my husband who's like no no, it's this one because I was just like so like I went into the zone of explain these significance so that I just like wet in and my husband like no, no, no, you're looking at the wrong thing is this one on the right and then they're like oh yeah, like glued onto this like you know, shell of what the hell it would have looked like so. 02:05.50 archaeoteacup Is this little pile of rusted metal here. 02:16.50 archaeoteacup Ah, which also I beguard if it's made of iron that must be so heavy as well. 02:21.21 NATASHA BILLSON Yeah, like I can't I mean I've tried on Roman Reconstruction helmets so I can only imagine how that would have felt but it's just oh wow it's just and the the parcel guilt features ah and especially around the the nose and the mouthpiece. 02:25.14 archaeoteacup Ah, yeah, yeah, like. 02:36.17 NATASHA BILLSON The is like ah it's a helmet and a face. You know it's face covering you're completely covered 3 sixty. You know you're protected so it's just ah, you can just imagine like this was not worn by your average warrior. 02:36.69 archaeoteacup Right? Yeah yeah. Yeah, yeah, no definitely yeah, something very interesting. It's funny. Actually when you were talking about warrior that if a warrior pose I did some yoga this morning. It was all you know, peaceful warrior or whatever I say yeah's do basically just yoga poses on the ah Sutton who helmet but no indeed of course very very regal. Very. 02:55.62 NATASHA BILLSON Okay. 03:05.82 archaeoteacup Who as if I shouldn't ah be talking about like that and so that leads actually very nicely into the second question. Um, which was what was the Sutton who helmet used for because I can imagine that if it's something that intricately decorated surely. It wasn't actually. Functional or do you think it might have been functional. Yeah. 03:24.86 NATASHA BILLSON Oh there's so many debates around this and there's a great. There's a great discussion piece by Dr Sue Brunning who is the curator at the british museum and so she oversees the saturn who and if you go onto Youtube. Ah. 03:32.35 archaeoteacup The. 03:38.10 NATASHA BILLSON What please I recommend watching curator's corner with Dr Sue running because it's like 1 of my favorite videos her explaining some of the Sutton who artifats which includes the sword as well as the helmets in question and she does a great blog by the way that covers. Um. 03:49.36 archaeoteacup Nothing. 03:55.89 NATASHA BILLSON The the Netflix the dig versus reality and I think that's brilliant I mean yeah, loads of us made Youtube videos at the time um, explaining it. But of course I mean she is the expert I mean she literally oversees at the british museum so watch that if you've got 15 minutes yeah Yeah, so 03:59.70 archaeoteacup Um, reality. Oh yeah, um, she knows her stuff. Okay. 04:11.58 archaeoteacup Okay, there. 04:15.45 NATASHA BILLSON Um, there is speculation around the helmet because it is found amongst grave goods. You know burial sites So was it ceremonial rather than combat I think so I mean the elaborate design the craftsmanship it suggests it was meant to sign my status and power. 04:24.86 archaeoteacup And. 04:34.67 NATASHA BILLSON Perhaps worn by a King or high ranking warrior during important events or rituals. Maybe you know you always see those kind of in films and yeah, great sure exactly when our judge doesn't know it's ritual and maybe it is in this case as well I mean because you know it's It's a helmet that. 04:42.82 archaeoteacup Ridge Waltz 04:47.84 archaeoteacup And yeah I. 04:52.95 NATASHA BILLSON Just as I said earlier it covers its three sixty s so it could offer protection but it's the fact that as you said the intricate decoration and symbol symbolism points to its role I would say maybe displaying authority lineage it connects the wearer both to this like earthly kingdom and the divine. 04:55.48 archaeoteacup Yeah. The. 05:09.64 archaeoteacup Help. 05:11.64 NATASHA BILLSON So maybe more maybe more ritual side ceremonial purpose I think I could be wrong I mean that's what means time travel right? Um, exactly it does it. 05:15.18 archaeoteacup Yeah, yeah, exactly yeah because it maybe everyone was wearing these you know it was just like wolf who doesn't have a garnet in crusted iron helmet these days but or yeah. 05:32.42 NATASHA BILLSON Oh just one second looking close the door because um, we have a plumber come in so once over please. 05:34.98 archaeoteacup Oh no I stories. 05:40.99 NATASHA BILLSON Oh sorry. 05:49.50 NATASHA BILLSON Princess on that this come on good gal. You're such a good cow. Yes, good gal. Good gal. But this is my ancient warrior. 05:59.38 archaeoteacup I Could just hear the background can I give me. Ah, ah, but yeah, yeah, there is there So I see. 06:07.33 NATASHA BILLSON Ah, hope she you know she the time Sheor Barks I Hope she doesn't bark now because obviously someone's in the house so she should be okay if it does Barks let me know so it's funny because she literally Barks once in the blue Moon So it's It's actually quite funny to hear her did you know oh I That's how quiet it is. 06:19.45 archaeoteacup I didn't actually hear the bar. So no yeah, ah no worries. Ah we talk about we sort of covered that one I think yeah I'll go to the next time. 06:25.51 NATASHA BILLSON So quiet Anyway, sorry I think we we we kind of covered the use and then yeah and then I'll just say rituals were kind of joking about that I cannot pronounce The guy's name who they think it is for the life of me. That's why I just say king. 06:38.47 archaeoteacup Yes, yeah, exactly. 06:43.42 NATASHA BILLSON Because I always forget how to pronounce his name. It's like royal world rowward wrote I can't say to me age just so that's why I just said king that would do is this I can't I can't it's like RAE the ae that's kind of kid together and the DWA. 06:49.40 archaeoteacup Ah, ah ah I don't actually know what the name is either who. 06:59.83 archaeoteacup Ah so red red is it just red world Ray the world. Ah, ah. 07:01.88 NATASHA BILLSON Ld is from redold is it redold. It can't be redold it sounds too like oh yeah, read Yeah, it just sounds too easy. You know feel like there needs to be something to it. 07:18.70 archaeoteacup ah ah yeah yeah I have no idea how you pronounce hang on how to pronounce I should really have paused the recording sorry Rachel if you're listening a e yeah, she can just use this to okay, hang on. Let me just. 07:20.53 NATASHA BILLSON Ah. 07:27.65 NATASHA BILLSON It could be in the the cuts at the end just to make it their longer guys. Fine. 07:36.55 archaeoteacup Sort of thing ask is it going? Well this is what you add I'm like whoa whoa. That's not. 07:43.14 NATASHA BILLSON I Didn't hear it don't worry to be fair I think I actually do say in my video but like it took us a while to like check and check to make sure the pronunciation was correct and my pronunciation is terrible I have someone like always with me to check me because I will just mispronounce something. 07:50.32 archaeoteacup Okay. 07:58.70 archaeoteacup Ah I have to I'm doing like a ah thing for the ex out journal where I do all of their pronunciations of that like all of the an overview of all the different journal articles every issue and some of the names like from eastern europe or you know otherwise that I'm like ah you China. 08:00.96 NATASHA BILLSON Like but. 08:11.18 NATASHA BILLSON Um, yeah. 08:16.69 archaeoteacup Ah, okay I found the thing hang on a second. 08:24.60 NATASHA BILLSON I guess it doesn't matter. We won't say it's fine radw world maybe a king radw world that's fine I kind of covered it yes or Rachel but I think we did cover ah already you made it. 08:24.62 archaeoteacup Ah I think it's just ah, add world rad world. Yeah, okay right? Sorry Rachel we're getting better it now. 08:39.54 NATASHA BILLSON Useful were kind of said who wore it already So I could just talk about why it's important if you like I did say it was a grave. 08:40.94 archaeoteacup yes yeah yes again okay now. Ah so okay, well then that sort of because you and you mentioned as well. It probably was worn by someone important so that was a d one of the other questions was who wore the Sutton who hel it but maybe will. We'll get into that a little bit further later but 1 of the questions that actually I was surprised that it came up so often. But I guess maybe because of the film the dig um one of the questions that came up was why is the sudden who helmet so important. 09:02.72 NATASHA BILLSON And. Yeah, so it's the Sutton who helmet is 1 of 4 known in the archaeological record in England so that's probably why so significant away my can you hear my princess in the background one second sorry let me just let me just. 09:23.59 archaeoteacup Don't need the. 09:26.13 NATASHA BILLSON Can deal with her I can't her out. Oh I will open the door. Yeah, oh okay, it's fine. She got it's funny. 1 listening. It's little french bulldog. So and I have her in a little lilac jumper dress. She's very cute today. She she dressed for the occasion. You know. 09:28.62 archaeoteacup Let's okay, you can hardly hear her. It's fine. Yeah. 09:42.00 archaeoteacup What's her name. Lovely Very good, very perfect. Maybe ah. 09:43.00 NATASHA BILLSON Her name is Princess Erica but she only answers to princess literally she only answers to princess and as by chance my mum was calling me one day and she ran so well. Oh that's her name because we rescued her so she just loved the name princess. So that's on yes princess apologies right? so. 09:57.67 archaeoteacup Oh fair enough fair enough. No no, we are talking about Kings and chieftains and things. It's only you know it's very relevant to the discussion I would say ah princes so indeed why? why. 10:02.95 NATASHA BILLSON Um, that's true. Yeah, so and. 10:12.64 archaeoteacup Suddenly help its own port. 10:13.78 NATASHA BILLSON Yes, so the saton new helmet is 1 of 4 known in the archaeological record in England from the early medieval period now it's discovery at Sutton who is among 1 of the most spectacular archeological finds in the Uk and that's for the time period I would say because obviously this it's all. 10:26.16 archaeoteacup The. 10:32.61 NATASHA BILLSON Personal preference. So for that time period I would say this ship burial is just by itself like Wow Honestly Wow Um, so the helmet with its intricate designs and craftmanship I would say challenges the outdated notion of the the dark ages quote unquote which at the time was this. 10:34.00 archaeoteacup Ah. 10:50.33 NATASHA BILLSON You know cultural decline and they saw that time period as being quite literally dark ages. So I think this discovery in itself changed the perception of the Medieval era. So I think that in itself is really really significant and we kind of need to to know in itself. 11:01.99 archaeoteacup Um, ride the the. 11:07.99 NATASHA BILLSON And maybe that's why I got so much media attention. Um. 11:08.46 archaeoteacup Which was it at the time people already were like oh actually this is from this time period or do they not believe it was from that time period like how did that go about in terms of kind of the acceptance then of of that new idea because I can imagine it would It was quite a difficult pill to swallow for some people to admit that. 11:27.79 NATASHA BILLSON Um, yeah I. 11:28.31 archaeoteacup So actually the middle ages might have not been quite so dark as we thought they were. 11:31.70 NATASHA BILLSON I Think if I remember correctly there were some was a journals or there's some there was like some riffs between the archaeologists I think they were from the British Museum actually or the local museums. Ah, versus. 11:43.12 archaeoteacup I Think so too. Yeah. 11:47.51 NATASHA BILLSON The archeologists ons site excavating when the archaeologists on site were saying look this is something I think from this time period and everyone's like no you know, like no way. Yeah, don't be ridiculous. What is what? what are you saying and you're finding you know ironed and it's shiny that obviously would have been that shiny but you know. 11:55.56 archaeoteacup Don't be ridiculous. Ah, ah. 12:04.16 archaeoteacup But looks. 12:05.10 NATASHA BILLSON You're finding all these these artifacts bearing in mind. Actually the artifacts recovered on the site were not um, really looked at until later on because obviously world watching. Um, so that's why we really only find really have a ah fuller understanding of. 12:13.62 archaeoteacup Right? yeah. 12:23.38 NATASHA BILLSON The artifacts and the significance of the burials later on in time. So you know they're talking about it in the press saying that that there is this amazing discovery. But I I would say the significance of it wasn't really fully understood until the artifacts themselves were actually looked at by specialist teams which were I think in the 50 s. 12:25.17 archaeoteacup Yeah. 12:37.48 archaeoteacup Yeah, Okay, even yeah, okay. 12:42.31 NATASHA BILLSON Ah, 40 s or fifty s it was. It was post world war two that these artifacts were really studied further. So I think it was it was a long time coming and one of the many archaeological discoveries that changed the perception of what medieval england was. 12:57.80 archaeoteacup Yeah, which is I mean yeah, pretty radical, radical change a sort of different different change of opinion. Yeah. 13:01.20 NATASHA BILLSON It it it it was but you know it's not yeah as I said so it wasn't just about the the helmet. It's what it represented So you know the wealth the artistry the societal structures of the anglo-saxons. So for many it gave a glimpse into the world that what we. 13:09.50 archaeoteacup Yeah. 13:20.43 NATASHA BILLSON Perceive as value in heroism craftsmanship and status and you know I would think it's this tangible connection to a past you know, thanks to this helmet and the other artifacts found with it that it isn't as lost to history as we might have thought and that it's. 13:23.25 archaeoteacup The. 13:35.63 archaeoteacup Yeah, yeah. 13:39.60 NATASHA BILLSON Really a reminder is as I said again, it's this reminder ofpeck complexity and richness of the societies that came before us and you know how artifacts like the Sutton who helmet can tell stories not just of individuals but of entire cultures. 13:44.58 archaeoteacup The. 13:51.61 archaeoteacup Yeah, yeah, and because you mentioned that the something new helmet is just 1 of 4 found so drawing on your expertise as a commercial archaeologist in terms of knowing a lot of different ground types and everything obviously with metal I mean is it. Do you think that there might have been. More potential of these kind of excavations and either we haven't found them here or they just haven't preserved well because if I if I remember from the film. Um, which shows how much I know about this site. Um, the for example, the boat wasn't there anymore. It was just kind of the outline of the. 14:19.50 NATASHA BILLSON Um. 14:24.68 archaeoteacup Planks sort of thick like the the preservation of all the objects was incredible, but there was also a lot that wasn't preserved. Is there something in the particular soil types in that region that would enable it to be preserved more so in other regions Do you know? or I know this is random question. 14:28.34 NATASHA BILLSON And. 14:37.82 NATASHA BILLSON Yeah, so you know if if if me, no no, it's not you know if memory serves ah the the geology of that area. Um, where the the barrier mound was found us quite close to the River Hence What? how they were able to bring the boat and create this mound so water would have been close enough. 14:51.90 archaeoteacup Um, and yeah, yes. 14:54.13 NATASHA BILLSON You know, logistically how the hell do they get this boat here and you know that there's a River nearby Hiss Water source so that it's going to be a bit more waterlogged or water rich I would say the soils are which is probably why this sort of ghost shell of the outline of the ship survived now as you said it's all about the acidic acidicy. 15:02.47 archaeoteacup The hair. 15:08.20 archaeoteacup They are. 15:13.26 NATASHA BILLSON Is that the correct way acidicy or the alkaline levels in the soils that that help us um, determine what the hell we're looking at you know there's some sites that are just amazing and you got this unbelievable wood preservation like I'm just thinking now I've got a glimpse of my head of a site we did in Oxford in the town center. 15:19.93 archaeoteacup Ah, yeah. 15:31.81 archaeoteacup Ah. 15:32.64 NATASHA BILLSON Massive massive site and the wood preservation is the best I've ever seen So good that we even get and you know leather shoes just like vinderlander. That's when you know it's good. Yeah, it's those good, Beautiful rich soils that are able to hold these artifacts and and not deteriorate them. Yeah, they don't decompose um because it's all organic matter. 15:34.28 archaeoteacup Um, okay, because ah, right. 15:46.72 archaeoteacup Yeah, right. 15:51.90 NATASHA BILLSON But when it comes to you know Iron Copper these metals these are harder to break down. Um, so I said there's other factors involved into how it can degradate get degregate. Um, so I mean as you as you mentioned before the helmet was in pieces. 15:55.86 archaeoteacup Okay. 16:10.85 NATASHA BILLSON Small pieces. It took like 25 years for them to piece it together and who knows you know if they've really got it in the right place. You know when you are exactly who knows. 16:14.38 archaeoteacup Um, a Wow that's a good point. What if it's actually a complete what if what we've described as amazing and fantastic is not it at all. Ah oh wow. 16:27.71 NATASHA BILLSON I mean it took like 25 years they should be okay, hopefully you'd hope that I mean I guess it's the most realistic formation I mean I'm not a conservator but I'm assuming it. There's a lot of things that go get play and it's a to recreate something but again, it's all artististic license in itself with what they. 16:29.51 archaeoteacup Yeah, you'd hope. 16:38.74 archaeoteacup Yeah, yeah, well and I mean is this then a reconstruction that happened kind of directly after it was well or not even directly after it was excavated because as you said there was the war but like has it has it been. 16:47.10 NATASHA BILLSON Steve. 16:53.13 NATASHA BILLSON Um, it was yeah if I remember ah if I'm correctly it was first constructed and then they disagreed and then later on it was dismantled and re recreated if I remember correctly. 16:57.85 archaeoteacup Reassessed because I mean. 17:06.00 archaeoteacup Rise yeah. 17:10.44 NATASHA BILLSON Um, and that's why it's like kind of over 25 year period that is kind of looked at you know back and forth where they where they get it to where it is today. What we see and does that it is yeah it is I mean obviously time money skills and you know the reconstructed helmet I think was made by the raw armor. So obviously that's. 17:12.93 archaeoteacup Free assist which is important right? like? yeah yeah, and then just. 17:30.26 NATASHA BILLSON Artistic license in itself using other sources to kind of create what they think that they may have like the the motifs that we see obviously from other inspired by other reliefs in other settings. So. 17:31.98 archaeoteacup Writes. 17:36.64 archaeoteacup Okay, yeah, yeah. Yeah, but no, but though that's it It is funny to think that maybe it's completely completely. Actually. 17:50.77 NATASHA BILLSON Well, you know in a way that's it's that not ah when we excavate something and we interpret it. It's an interpretation but where does that interpretation and that knowledge come from. It's that it's collective as well as individual um memories. 17:57.20 archaeoteacup That's true. Yeah. 18:05.78 NATASHA BILLSON And associations and scientific understanding. But it's this collection of of all this data where we're able to say this is what's happening. You know we're kind of 80% sure because you can't be 100% sure of anything especially when you're dealing with the past. 18:11.70 archaeoteacup Yeah. No Oh no I can still remember I'm so so reluctant to and in any of my writing now to write something like we know this because we like but we don't We can't know it. It's like wait. No This is about something different Italy. It's fine. Potentially suggest I think is the most word. 18:27.13 NATASHA BILLSON Um, ah, possibly potentially suggestive could be. 18:33.14 archaeoteacup Which suggests that you know ah I'm just hedging all my bets here top putting down. 18:40.22 NATASHA BILLSON I Feel like we should create like a little um archeologist guide to trying to describe something without you know, shooting yourself in the foot. Ah. 18:45.35 archaeoteacup Yeah, without giving an actual like solid conclusion. It's I mean but that is and I think that that's I don't know I personally think that that's a really great way to look at the world in general though to not just see it in black and white and then you see right? There's there's. 18:51.64 NATASHA BILLSON Yes. 19:01.75 NATASHA BILLSON Yes, so true. It's like if you want to get really for the soft core and off key. You know what is history. What is the past does the past happen from a moment ago or is the past a hundred years ago so 19:02.37 archaeoteacup A lot of nuances and lots of different things and actually it is all based on your own interpretation. Yeah. 19:10.11 archaeoteacup Exactly oh. I mean yeah, that's getting well but didn't even like you say like this sudden who burial it was. You know it was an important burial because it made us it made historians completely reassess their whole understanding of history. So what? if you know something else happens in the next ten years 19:19.63 NATASHA BILLSON I Mean it's all those kind of deep questions sometimes. 19:32.18 NATASHA BILLSON Um. 19:35.13 archaeoteacup We have another kind of site which completely makes us rethink or reinterpret ah a period of history or a culture or something like that. Yeah yes. 19:44.19 NATASHA BILLSON I Thinkt That's the beauty of it reading. That's a beauty of article excavation and and people looking in even in the archives and rediscovering you know books that they thought were lost like the book of hours of what was this thing One of the she think was in the tudor period I've gone already to do a tudor history. So um. 19:53.24 archaeoteacup Yeah. 19:59.10 archaeoteacup Okay, yeah, okay, yeah. 20:02.12 NATASHA BILLSON Not really my forte but there's a painting with this book and they found the book and in I think in Oxford library so it was lost for hundreds of years I think like 400 years it was lost so you know discoveries can be found everywhere is the point. 20:08.51 archaeoteacup Um, okay, ah oh other they felt yeah well or even like you mentioned the the new new techniques. We've just finished reading for the ah book club the Archo Book Club Thing we've we've finished reading kindred by Recca Ra Sykes and it was really interesting because she was talking about how you know indeed so many perceptions that were had of the neanderthals and then you had all these different techniques that have been used that actually then give a whole other picture. So it's the same material that's being looked at but just in a different way as well. Which is also really interesting. So many different things to be to be looked at anyway. 20:26.11 NATASHA BILLSON Um. 20:40.37 NATASHA BILLSON Um. 20:43.15 NATASHA BILLSON Um. 20:43.41 archaeoteacup But slightly off piece. Sorry ah but I do think that this sort of this burial almost represents that idea in a way is is what you were saying before as well. Um, yeah. 20:53.92 NATASHA BILLSON All about perception and and you're right this This is a really significant. Um, object that not only sure ah not only shows the significant importance of the leader who was buried who laid to rest in this beautiful Earth mound. But it's also. More as you said the nuances around how we interpret the past. 21:14.79 archaeoteacup Yeah, and um, just sort of a final I guess thing about the about the burial itself then um because the helmet itself is is amazing. But of course there's so many other incredible things in this burial. And I'm I right in thinking that is is also some things that come from like surprisingly far away. Yeah right I thought I had read that somewhere. 21:31.17 NATASHA BILLSON Yeah, if I remember correctly there's like rubies from Sri Lanka I mean it's unbelievable when you look at it's actually I remember when I was doing the research for my overview of of Netflix the dig and. 21:49.14 archaeoteacup Listen, but. 21:49.46 NATASHA BILLSON The real archeology behind it and I remember thinking like wow like this shows trade interaction with other cultures around the world and it's a fantastic example of of that really through these artifacts through these objects which we know did not originate in Europe at the time. 21:56.77 archaeoteacup Yeah. 22:07.44 archaeoteacup Yeah. 22:09.21 NATASHA BILLSON From further afield and having that in this place you know of all places like you would not expect that now because today's society is you know London Centric it's based in the south of england back then it was a completely different game like you know england or the UK was divided in a different way. 22:19.80 archaeoteacup Right? yeah. 22:26.70 archaeoteacup Yeah. 22:28.80 NATASHA BILLSON So the way trade interaction was happening were with different kingdoms effectively. So I think that in itself is is like wow it is is truly unbelievable. But for me, it's always that the rubies from Sri Lanka I'm just like Rubys all garnets from Sri Lanka let me just like Google that whats like it. 22:31.78 archaeoteacup Yeah. 22:42.63 archaeoteacup No other. 22:45.91 NATASHA BILLSON Just to be sure I'm fashionally correct but I remember yeah I remember correctly. 22:48.81 archaeoteacup I feel like I read something about that as well. You can cut this bit. Rachel. 22:52.95 NATASHA BILLSON Oh yeah, so yeah, you know you've got. Um, yeah so you had like the silver bowl and spoons from the by of byzantine and then you've got this gold dress accessory sets with Sri Lankan garnets so yeah it was garnet's not rubies unless you know some of over like 250 artifacts 23:06.87 archaeoteacup Okay, there. But yeah, right, yeah of course or maybe yeah, got lost during excavation or post excavation or who knows yeah. 23:12.50 NATASHA BILLSON That we that we know were recovered I bet there were more they just were not retrieved. 23:20.99 NATASHA BILLSON Exactly it happens you know, bearing in mind ah practice that we have now were not adopted back then and ah every year every decade archeological excavations and post-excavation techniques changes and it evolves and it becomes better. 23:26.70 archaeoteacup Right. 23:34.63 archaeoteacup The. 23:37.67 NATASHA BILLSON Ah, we are less likely to miss these minute details like so very small artifacts. It's quite hard. It is easy to miss Sometimes if you're not si through the the soils that are taken up with these said artifacts you're you're very likely to obviously as well back then no me detectors to just give like a once over to make sure. 23:42.50 archaeoteacup Up right. 23:53.86 archaeoteacup Do you have missed anything. Yeah and I guess that like things like the helmet would have sort of heard probably still been kind of recognizable as something interesting. So that's why they kept it but there might have been I Guess more things that weren't considered interesting or you know they. 23:55.74 NATASHA BILLSON You're not missing any metal objects. So yeah. 24:09.10 NATASHA BILLSON Um. 24:10.59 NATASHA BILLSON You know exactly what is interesting that in itself like you actually see that in the archaeological record that the archaeologists depending where they are in the world. This is like literally worldwide information is that you see in archaeological records. 24:11.47 archaeoteacup They weren't considered as yeah. 24:28.13 NATASHA BILLSON Like thirty forty years ago you can see how they interpret information and what they deem as important to record to actually document on a piece of paper versus what is not and you see gaps. You see these anomalies and you start to see these patterns of okay this is not significant for them. Um, we see that in so many different types. 24:29.95 archaeoteacup Hello This is yeah. 24:40.61 archaeoteacup Yeah, yeah, which then also has such a big effect on current archeological thing and that's I always try to tell people like be really careful like check what people are citing and check what people's sources are because if people are saying oh yes, but. 24:45.44 NATASHA BILLSON Of archeological situations. 24:57.81 archaeoteacup Look this has been important for 50 or one hundred or thousand years or whatever and then you're like yes, but if you're citing these antiquarian interpretations. Those interpretations were very yeah, limited. 25:06.79 NATASHA BILLSON You know it makes me question. How even I have in the past documented recorded something that I have seen because we do not deem certain artifacts as significant. We just drop them on a piece of paper. We don't even keep them anymore because we have such a large quantity of these set objects. 25:19.16 archaeoteacup Um, earth. 25:22.44 archaeoteacup Bright and. 25:24.69 NATASHA BILLSON Yet if you were to speak to someone in America or Australia they're keeping every single part of this post medieval material. Um, but fast we literally. Okay, we found stoneware bossel we just write it. We might sample 1 or 2 that are are different so we'll just take samples of them but we wouldn't keep all of it. 25:31.18 archaeoteacup Right? Yeah, um, yeah. 25:39.33 archaeoteacup Hi. 25:41.76 NATASHA BILLSON Um, we may document how many we have take some measurements on site but generally speaking you know the postdex team who are in the office they will tell us. No, we don't need it or yes we need this and they may look at it they may document it and then they have to discard it afterwards. Not everything is saved because there's not enough space. 25:50.10 archaeoteacup Yeah, yeah, yeah. 25:57.48 archaeoteacup This is the thing right? I mean there's no possible way that we could save every single thing from antiquity or history anything is the. 26:01.13 NATASHA BILLSON No, no, no, there's not and we have an abundance of archaeological material in the Uk So it's making that call and there's so many issues you'll see in the news where we are having storage issues and archive issues. 26:11.20 archaeoteacup Um, that's. 26:18.83 archaeoteacup Yeah, yeah, which you know so maybe maybe someone in the past didn't think that helmets were important so they just chucked out a bunch of ah it used to be hundreds. 26:25.37 NATASHA BILLSON But exactly they're like ah don't do this? Yeah, you know maybe they weren't like the Romans who you know if someone had fallen. They would keep the the armor because that's where all the money is right? You don't It's That's why it's so rare to find them bery. Um, yeah, you good. They keep them. That's that's what. 26:36.50 archaeoteacup All right? Okay, oh I see her ah good to yeah ah. 26:43.00 NATASHA BILLSON Ah, money is they need that you know that that soldier that that that sword costs. But yeah, yes I just I just heard is she is are they okay is woken up. Ah. 26:51.94 archaeoteacup Can you hear my baby in the background graph. Yeah, she's I think she's hungry but doesn't want to eat. It's the sound sounds like that's what's happening a well Hopefully you know what? if it's not and out. It's fine I'm a working mother these things happen. Ah. 27:04.44 NATASHA BILLSON Exactly you're such an icon like I always think whenever I see you like with them one of your children and you're like on an expedition I'm like Wow we need to see more of this I Just love it so much every time. 27:16.23 archaeoteacup Ah, yeah, thanks I appreciate it. It's ah they seem to have fun apart from now when she doesn't want to eat her lunch but anyway, ah okay, well we're going to have another quick break. Give people a chance to top up their tea but we'll be back very soon with more.