00:00.60 Ashleigh Airey Hi and you're listening to episode 12 of on my trow where we look at the fantastic side of archeology and the archeological side of fancy I'm ash today. We're going to be looking at a mythical figure, a creature made from the wilds and winds who has control over. 00:08.36 archaeoteacup And I'm tilly. 00:19.39 Ashleigh Airey Creation and has no affinity with the weather. She of course is the kayak Um Kayo Kayo You got it tillie. 00:25.92 archaeoteacup Kay Kayev Kay Ka I am definitely going to pronounce that rock throughout the whole of this episode I apologize in advance to anyone listening. 00:34.60 Ashleigh Airey I also apologize I don't have a lot of gallic so I would just go off it like yeah this is how you pronounce it right? So now many people might not have heard of her or know her by name unless maybe you live in Scotland or Ireland and because she's a big figure in celtic mythology. But you will have heard of her. Um, so let me give you a clue. She's a giant andress ancestress a mother of mountains she sculptps landscapes with a giant steps and she drops rocks to form mountains from her wicker basket and she's one Eyed Whitehead dark blue skin and rust colored teeth. She is the personification of winter fighting offspring in an eternal battle. She is what her name means she is a divine hag. 01:12.19 archaeoteacup Oh lovely. 01:20.83 archaeoteacup A divine hag So that's kayak is divine hag. 01:26.50 Ashleigh Airey It's kayak hi Kayak is um, hag is old woman actually and sometimes you can think it's actually like old crone wise woman. Yeah yeah, kind of yeah. 01:28.87 archaeoteacup Um, so kind of like a witch in a way I'm just thinking of ah you knew I going to bring it in right out. Ah so it turns Muchs toque. 01:42.90 Ashleigh Airey Oh gosh here we go. It's dery frature hour did did do. 01:48.71 archaeoteacup But they call the we free men are like the little they're called picked Sea's not pixies's but picked seas which I find hilarious. We might have to do an episode on them. Um, and they call witches hags like that's their word for a witch. So I guess that's rather than like. 01:54.85 Ashleigh Airey Oh nice hit. 02:01.10 Ashleigh Airey Yeah. 02:06.55 Ashleigh Airey Always an old woman. Yes, um, like for instance, my partners grandmother will call herself a kayak because she's yeah, she's like I'm just a kao and so she'll say that all the time or she's like I'm just to sallikao or stuff like that. 02:06.70 archaeoteacup But is it always an old old woman. Okay, so. 02:13.84 archaeoteacup Oh really. 02:23.30 Ashleigh Airey She is an older woman and so she'll refer to herself as an old woman. Um, so if you think about a lot of European Foreclo traditions though Hags are usually older women who have affinity with like witchcraft nature but they always always have sovereignty attached to them. 02:27.75 archaeoteacup Um. 02:31.84 archaeoteacup The. 02:38.56 archaeoteacup Are. 02:40.91 Ashleigh Airey They're respected and they're feared but where do Hags come from what does their appearance in our folkcal traditions tell us about how people interpreted the landscape. Um, so telly have you ever read anything that features a kayak or divine hag. 02:56.24 archaeoteacup Not necessarily a cut guy Coak co Um, and to be honest I hadn't heard of it before you mentioned it as well when you were saying oh we could do an episode on the kayak and I had to do a whole. Oh right? Yeah, um, remind me again. Um, but I know. 03:08.10 Ashleigh Airey He just rolled off your tongue there. You won't even notice it. Yeah. 03:13.85 archaeoteacup Um, but I've just naturally naturally born with the the scottish tongue. Um, technically it was born in Scotland although even though I have probably no scottish heritage so you know we'll see um, but yeah, so I haven't I haven't necessarily read anything I don't think that features the Claire. But as I say I have read. Um. The ter fresh it series does have a witches series in it and they there's a lot in that about you know if you don't have respect. You don't have nothing and and the the head which is very much feared by the locals as well. But then also has that respect of it and all this kind of thing and I think I'm trying to think of other books I've read which have. Kind of fantasy elements with with the big hack and there's bound. They're pretty much in nearly every kind of fantasy series I guess there's always some kind of creepy old lady who sort of is in the background telling thing like you know what I mean in in that kind of book like in There's a certain kind of fantasy. I think where that's there and there's always sort of some. It's it's but it's it's almost um, not necessarily respected in those in those kind of books I feel. It's just fear. Um whereas I feel. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 04:21.45 Ashleigh Airey But fear is also a type of respect in some way healthy Modicum of fear you know. 04:29.75 archaeoteacup Whereas I feel like and I know I it's the problem is that's like 25 books in that series right? So of course I'm going to find something to to get them from in each one. 04:36.11 Ashleigh Airey Well to be fair though I mean Terry Pratchett's discwild series does have a lot of witches and hags and gray tags in them. So you know weird sisters and they are technically hags. Um. 04:41.43 archaeoteacup A lot of things. Yeah. 04:50.20 archaeoteacup Well and my favorite part of those ones is that they they can do magic and you know that kind of thing but they don't a lot of the time. It's just what's the word they use headology they use is the word. So it's basically persuading people that they're going to get better like almost like placebo effect. Basically. 04:57.39 Ashleigh Airey Mm. 05:07.94 Ashleigh Airey Yeah. 05:09.97 archaeoteacup So they they give them you know Agros sucroses or or whatever and it's just like water and sugar you know, but they they take it and they think that it's going to be better. So it's that kind of because people respect them and know that they will make them better if they give them something they're going to make them better and I think there's some scene somewhere where. 05:16.44 Ashleigh Airey Right? So they yeah. 05:27.29 archaeoteacup You know the the person is like really is that everything and you know it's granny where the wax is going. Oh I guess and you have to lie on a board of oh seasoned over 20 years and you know do all this thing to get that he's going. Oh so the knots will go from my back to the wood and it's like oh granny had thought of that that was a good one for lato. You know, like so it's. 05:46.78 Ashleigh Airey Ah I. 05:46.89 archaeoteacup But yeah, it's it's that the whole aspect of of kind of yeah that mixture of fear and respect. But then so people don't necessarily like the witches but they know they're a good thing. So I guess that's similar to the kayak. It's sort of that thing. You wouldn't necessarily be like oh what? a lovely person but you know she's necessary. 06:03.95 Ashleigh Airey She's very necessary she creates and sculpts the whole landscape that we live in she is She's the whole point of winter and you know life really she created and but I think that that's an interesting thing because we look at divine Hags and we look at. 06:04.75 archaeoteacup Yeah. 06:12.14 archaeoteacup Move? Yeah yeah. 06:20.58 Ashleigh Airey Kaks and we look at even like Baba Yaga and stuff that you know these witches these women these wise women and we see them as a negative thing in modern society but actually they weren't it was never a negative thing so we're getting a bit feminist here but they you know we are. Of course we all feminists. But. 06:29.76 archaeoteacup Yeah, yeah. 06:36.55 archaeoteacup Um, of course. Yeah. 06:39.93 Ashleigh Airey You know? so we see this kind of as a scary thing. A hag is a scary thing. You'll see them kind of characterized especially in like D and D they're usually creepy old scary women who have green skin and what and try to tick children and make terrible potions and kind of trick. You. 06:48.99 archaeoteacup Service. 06:58.61 archaeoteacup I Mean to be fair, the kayia has blue skin and rust colored teeth have he has also not exactly ah no, that's true. 06:58.62 Ashleigh Airey But that's not she does Yeah, it's not she doesn't have to be attractive. She's sculpture of mountains for goodness sake. But like you know, um, but that's how I think it's changed and that's because of the heavy influence of the patriarchy as well. 07:15.30 archaeoteacup Those. 07:17.55 Ashleigh Airey So these women were highly respected. Well they were in modern society as well. Hags like you know they're wise women. They're also midwives doctors things like that anyone any woman that has you know, um power Yeah, exactly exactly. 07:30.36 archaeoteacup Some kind of power or knowledge I Guess yeah, um. 07:34.84 Ashleigh Airey But they do relate to their landscape. They always relate to nature. They always relate to the wider world and so do you have a favorite um depiction of ah of a kayak or ah ah a divine hag. 07:36.89 archaeoteacup This is this. 07:48.27 archaeoteacup I mean it probably is to be the the Terry Pratchett witches I think that's the closest that I would come because indeed it is the and like you say they relate a lot to the landscape to the land to an understanding even the first book that they're introduced in weird sisters and it's all about the kingdom. Is unhappy with the current King. It's sort of a play on Hamler um, and yeah, so so it's talking about the landscape and how the animals react but also the trees and the mountains and everything and they sort of talk about how all the different growing stages of the different aspects of the landscape and everything and how that's related which I think is really. Interesting. You know to actually go into that detail of of that kind of thing I'm trying to think if there was a is there like a a witch in a female witch in lord of the rings. 08:39.23 archaeoteacup I don't think there is right I'm trying to think I haven't read the silver meilian and stuff so I don't know if there is any in the in the kind of by stories who is so to speak. But I'm trying to think and I feel like in that one because that would be 1 with it's always a male figure kind of being the. 08:41.26 Ashleigh Airey Well is no I've read the hang on. 08:58.45 archaeoteacup The winter wise landscape. Yeah um, which is interesting. Okay I will pause. It's starting. Yeah. 08:58.45 Ashleigh Airey The the wise and character winter powerful. That's very interesting pause I'm going to have a look. 09:12.63 Ashleigh Airey Ah, and well in lord the rings. It seems like this diary that the kind of wizards. Um, who include Gandalf and Sarah man raaggast and the blue wizards they're all men they they they don't see because they have the bodies of men men being colloquial for humans. 09:23.10 archaeoteacup Um, is is yeah. 09:28.27 archaeoteacup This is. 09:30.49 Ashleigh Airey And but he did use that word and then referred to it. You know as men and but it it seems that generally it seems like tolens conceived all the kind of magical beings as male in that sense. So any kind of. 09:42.70 archaeoteacup The the. 09:46.94 Ashleigh Airey Ah, sovereignty figure that we have a wise and older person they're they're all men in in Tolkien. But there is only yeah. 09:50.91 archaeoteacup Um, which is interesting right? because like you say in in folklore. It's There's a lot about women like wizards aren't really a thing in folklore. Are they right. 10:03.34 Ashleigh Airey You get not really I mean there's definitely magical users who are men I mean it doesn't it doesn't really have a agenda to it They for from the well I'm um, thinking of Scottish mythology and Irish mythology. 10:08.80 archaeoteacup Yeah. 10:17.95 Ashleigh Airey Um, you have you do have magical users but you also have magical users who are tricksters and sometimes they they're usually men um and um, sort of they're kind of these like immortal masculine spirits and stuff that you get um and I think maybe he's can't kind of gone into that a little bit more. 10:18.20 archaeoteacup Ah, is is. 10:24.34 archaeoteacup Ah, right? yeah. 10:28.26 archaeoteacup Business. 10:35.45 archaeoteacup Um, and. 10:36.34 Ashleigh Airey And but a lot of the kind of folklore mythology that Tolkien uses and is interesting because yeah, they're not really I always think actually well I always think of the blue men and the blue wizards and we have blue men in Scotland and but they're usually associated with the sea. So it's just interesting that you. 10:54.97 archaeoteacup Ah. 10:55.35 Ashleigh Airey You look at these different kinds of um, magic identities and um and then yeah Tolen's kind of gone a totally different way from it. But that also reflects the the and time that he's writing in. 11:02.85 archaeoteacup Ah, is. 11:08.73 archaeoteacup Yeah, yeah. 11:11.17 Ashleigh Airey And because he is writing about wars as well that his whole thing is about world war one isn't it in his experiences and stuff so it will be a very male dominated. Um frontline kind of a narrative that doesn't nest. But also there's only like 2 women. 11:14.13 archaeoteacup Right. 11:22.94 archaeoteacup Um, yeah, right have you seen that there's some. There's some video about like um cover. What is it's like oh um, the here's a video of all the times that. 11:29.30 Ashleigh Airey To look. 11:38.55 archaeoteacup A woman speaks to another woman in the lord of the rings films and you've got like a 2 second clip where that little girl goes where is Mama and awin goesh and that's it. 11:44.23 Ashleigh Airey Yeah, the end. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, but it's fair, definitely and there's the outside stories as well where he took you know it's about him and his wife and and their love and all that kind of stuff. But yeah, yeah. 11:51.74 archaeoteacup Ah, which yeah yeah. 11:57.60 archaeoteacup The yeah but now but no, but that's yeah, it's it's it's interesting indeed how the different and actually that's referenced a bit in the Terry Fra one too because you also have wizards in this world and witches and there's a lot of. 12:04.00 Ashleigh Airey No I see so it's difficult. Yeah. 12:14.36 Ashleigh Airey Um. 12:15.62 archaeoteacup Like the witches think that wizards just pomp us old fools in their University who don't actually know how the world works and you know all this kind of stuff whereas the wizards think that the witches are just you know common Hags who you know can't deal with the bigger magics and only deal with sort of Hedge Witch You know Magic. So. I Guess and I guess there is right? There's that sort of association in modern fantasy of that like of a woman ah a like a calach and which which but you say she moves mountains and things I mean that's powerful magic to me. But but I guess you would you still have in a lot of ah modern Fantasy books. 12:33.77 Ashleigh Airey And. 12:43.29 Ashleigh Airey Oh no, Yes, yeah. 12:52.14 archaeoteacup It's more the witch is more kind of she'd be a sorccess if you know if if she's really powerful but just sort of the old hag The old lady which is has a bit of a different connotation I would say I don't know. 13:01.36 Ashleigh Airey Yeah, and that you got to remember the kayak she is winter she is the landscape she is the creator of things So like she create she does create mountains and she literally like will use the landscape as stepping stones and as she moves the landscape. 13:09.97 archaeoteacup Perf. 13:19.70 Ashleigh Airey Like she creates it with her feet. Um, she also calls in winter because she has certain things that she'll do certain rituals so she'll collect firewood and if an extra day. She's still collecting firewood on a certain day in spring you know that winter is like still going. Um all vice versa. You know. 13:22.24 archaeoteacup Um. 13:35.89 archaeoteacup Um, this is. 13:38.90 Ashleigh Airey Um, she also has stuff where you know she's got this big plaid cloth and you must wash it. She must wash it. It takes three days to wash and only then will she call in winter once it's nice and white and pristine. 13:40.86 archaeoteacup Are. 13:51.67 archaeoteacup Um, okay. 13:53.87 Ashleigh Airey Um, so the stuff ah that that it's It's very much rooted in folkla. It's rooted in people's traditions and people have they're moving around the landscape and how they're interpreting and that landscape um through a divine being. Um, so tilly that brings us to our quest today. 14:01.61 archaeoteacup And is it exciting. 14:13.29 Ashleigh Airey So I woke up this morning foul mood obviously um, feeling extremely cold I could see my breath crystallizing on the air I was shivering in my doovie and I dragged myself out of bed opened my kittens and saw that there was a thick layer of frost outside everywhere covering the back garden. 14:29.62 archaeoteacup Ah, this is. 14:32.58 Ashleigh Airey I'm want to look closely. There was actually a herd of deer staring back at me from the recesses of this gloomy trees but in the center of the frost Lay a great dark plaid wad of fabric. No I'd heard stories like this before I've just told you the story and I feel like the kayak had. 14:33.73 archaeoteacup Oh lovely. 14:44.35 archaeoteacup No. 14:51.13 Ashleigh Airey Clearly visited me in the dead of night and she gave us a task to complete. Okay so I tooked on some boots I went outside grabbed my the great old daity plaids and on top. There was a note that said Beara left her plaid at home. It needs to be washed, take it to the cauldron. 14:55.26 archaeoteacup Have. 15:09.49 Ashleigh Airey So she can usher in winter again Signed botock. 15:11.34 archaeoteacup But hang on I mean it's it is nearly spring isn't it. 15:17.92 Ashleigh Airey Oh yeah, that's a good point. Um, but honestly my toes were freezing and I'm really not sure I want to invite the wrath of the kayak on our heads. So I think we have a mission we have to tras across the landscape find this cauldron. 15:25.34 archaeoteacup Fast. 15:33.64 Ashleigh Airey Deliver the winter plaid to the kayak. But first as archaeologists we need to find it and figure out where in the world. She might be so as an archaeologist. What would you think? ah to do when approaching this scenario. Keep it very brief. 15:49.31 archaeoteacup I would say we can even maybe just saying because we're already at 15 minutes maybe we can just do it to the next one to the decision. But yeah, we can cut that bit out so every till please cut that bit out. 15:58.71 Ashleigh Airey Okay, sure so shall I cut that bit out. Okay so I join me to hes sorry I got too excited and um, okay so I'll see but but first as archaeologists we need to find and figure out where in the world. She might be. But before we go into more detail on that. Let me just consult my rooon stones and we'll be back with you soon. 16:21.51 archaeoteacup Um, exciting.