00:00.00 archaeoteacup Hi you're listening to episode 15 of and my trial where we look at the fantastic side of archaeology and archeological side of fantasy. My name's tilly and today we're going to be talking about 1 of the most classic fantasy objects. 00:09.69 Ashleigh Airey And I'm ash. 00:17.30 Ashleigh Airey O seeing stones flying carpets ancient tomes. 00:21.62 archaeoteacup Um, no, not really I not not quite okay, all right? So fine. Maybe it's not exactly a classic fantasy object but they do feature in a lot of fantasy fiction and most importantly, if you want to clue they don't feature. In our podcast intro exactly and well well well as luck would have it I've just seen someone walking along the street outside who might be able to help hang on a second Amber Amber 00:39.22 Ashleigh Airey Oh you mean axes. 00:56.38 archaeoteacup Um, so I want to come on a convenience to have you walking along the street outside our office so this is Dr Amber Roy who just so happens to be a professional archaeologist currently specializing in axes. 01:08.35 Ashleigh Airey Ah, amazing. Welcome and thanks so much for joining us and so fortuious. Oh know. 01:14.90 archaeoteacup Who knew so Amber Welcome to the podcast. Um, perhaps you'd like to say a little about yourself What exactly is your specialism in terms of Axes and how did you get into doing axes. 01:28.77 Amber Ah, well I mean I would describe myself as an experimental archaeology archaeologist and Usewa analyst um, and I apply these methods to stones but specifically stones with blades and that means axes. Um. 01:44.61 archaeoteacup Stones with blood. 01:46.40 Amber I have been researching accesss for many years and it's kind of I said know I think this has been ah, developing through my entire life. This is a fascination with stone and axes I am I grew up in East Angria and flint is amazing. Andly abundant there. So I was always trying to. Very poorly nap flint that didn't really go very well I think when I was a child I used to just draw all over it instead and tried to shape it um and then when I actually went to university to study archaeology I quickly transferred this attention. To different kinds of stone axes and like course and groundstone. Um and the allure of neolithic polished stone axes really captured my attention and um, yeah, the rest is history I just haven't been able to escape it. 02:38.11 archaeoteacup I Do find it funny that you say you've always had a fascination with Axis that does sound slightly morbid ah was was there a particular like I don't know Spark point. 02:44.31 Amber Um, ah. 02:50.76 Amber Um, oh I mean that's kind of hard I suppose I so I suppose a trip to a museum in Bannga where I studied for my undergraduate and they had this entire wall full of produce axis. And that that was probably the spark point thinking wow look at these. 03:09.54 archaeoteacup Okay, so it was always like it was always past Axis It wasn't that you were just like obsessed with Axes in general and then could ah you never know. 03:14.17 Amber Oh yeah, no, not that bothered about modern ones? Yeah, no, it's the stone I mean I I am I'm really drawn to stone and the more I research Axes the more I get obsessed with stone as well. 03:16.99 Ashleigh Airey The. 03:30.35 Amber So they they come kind of hand in hand for me. 03:31.61 archaeoteacup Oh fair enough fair enough. 03:35.33 Ashleigh Airey I Mean there is something really nice about finding an axe or like even just ah, a worked like stone Liic or something I remember finding them on site and being like oh my God This was smooth and nice. Oh and then on the other side. They're all dimpple Blue. You know so. Ah, they are quite nice I get it. 03:52.12 Amber Yet. 03:53.11 archaeoteacup Ah, ah, ah, hang on a second I've just realize we didn'tla the questioning ash. Do you want to just alternate questions. Sorry I forgot about that. Sorry um, okay. 04:03.17 Ashleigh Airey Oh yes, of course. Yeah, yeah, that' fine ah like I So what are you working on now amber. 04:07.25 Amber That's right I'm currently in the middle of a postdoctoral research project which is based in the archaeology research lab at Stockholm University and I'm doing a project entitled battleax technological lifeways. 04:21.69 archaeoteacup They hear. 04:23.75 Amber And this project looks at ax as their perforated axis some of them incredibly beautiful. Um, dating to the middle nearolithic bee in Sweden and various parts of Norway and Finland and this period is known as the battleax culture. Um, and my project. 04:24.74 Ashleigh Airey Momo. 04:43.24 Amber Looks at the lives of these objects and I'm particularly interested in looking at how the stone itself influences the trajectories of these axes. So how does stone influence how they were made and how they were used and then various different places they might end up. Um and ultimately also I mean. Axis are often the many different types of Axs but particularly battle axes are often objects that are seen as purely ceremonial and non-functional and they're seen as symbols of power and they because of this. It's often regarded that they they can't be used at all. And my research is really trying to break down these kind of very stereotypical and sexist interpretations. So again, this is what I'm working on right now. Yeah. 05:24.50 archaeoteacup Yes, we love the breakdown of sexist interpretations. 05:29.15 Ashleigh Airey That's fantastic. Yeah, and well, what's the weirdest place you said their life ways. So like where they end up what they become do you have like a really weird one for an ax like does it end up but in a completely different place than you imagined or like. 05:45.32 Amber Um, well maybe not, there are and a small number from bogs um, but that's not very many there are someone from burials and most of them are stray fines. Many axes this this isn't won't be just for battle axes. But for for many different types of of prihitoric stone Aes they tend to be found by farmers and not modern farmers. But when farming used very shallow ploughs and people would walk behind the plowughs. That's when a lot of objects were found. 05:59.97 Ashleigh Airey Um. 06:17.25 Ashleigh Airey Yeah. 06:18.33 Amber Um, and so a lot of these axes have been in medium collections for a really long time and then I've like I've looked at somewhere where the only information about the ax just as thank you for farmer Ted for donating this to the museum. Yeah, so. 06:29.86 archaeoteacup But off fatherberhead your Star farm at dead. 06:34.13 Ashleigh Airey Ah, yeah, it's always funny because yeah, they truncate all the features. 06:36.39 Amber So a lot of them. They could have really amazing contexts and and be found in weird places but we just wouldn't we wouldn't know um I have heard of what happens to some axes after they've been found so there have been some really big in the early bronze age of Britain you get really big perforated axes called ax hammers. They could be over 30 cent thirty four centimeters long um, very big and heavy and some farmers have found them and then they've gone. Oh that makes a good doorstop and put put them on like a barn door and others have found smaller perforated axes and hung them. 07:03.42 archaeoteacup Oh. 07:07.34 Ashleigh Airey Ah, yeah. 07:12.88 Amber On string to ward off Evil and things like that. So there's there's some odd more modern uses and where these axes end up. 07:20.71 archaeoteacup Yeah, very cool and what would you say? sorry yeah girl. 07:23.45 Ashleigh Airey That's very cool. It's very cool. So no, no, no carry on God you did it. Oh god. 07:30.74 archaeoteacup I Got just taking a gulp of tea I go um, did it think um, ah um, and what would you say? So like there's some sort of interesting bits and everything but in terms of the research itself I mean if you say a lot of them. A story finds. Is it. 07:35.80 Amber This is official. 07:49.71 archaeoteacup And can you do you have is it better to have contextual information about them or is it actually good not to have that information if you don't I mean. 07:56.28 Amber Um, I mean it's always great to have contextual information. It's wonderful to find a look at an object that was found in a grave and it had ah ah some flint blades with it. It had some pottery you have the remains of a burial there and then. You have the possibility of doing a lot of different analysis. There's um, a double burial from a place called Lynch Sheping in Sweden which had a male and a female buried with a dog and then also a child and a series of different. Objects and they managed to do ad on the skeletal remains and isotope analysis and which shows that these people were actually connected to Yamnia Step Hars and not the traditional hunter gatherer communities that were already in Sweden which is which is is a really interesting element of. Ah, so that's culture people so having an axe placed in a burial like that. Ah connects it amazingly to all this other information. Um, so that's fantastic and this is often why archaeologists often are drawn to looking at objects that are from. 09:00.74 archaeoteacup Um, this. 09:10.78 Amber Burials and settlements and things like that. But we now have so many amazing methods that we can use to draw out elements of these objects lives So A lot of my research looks at Stray finds and I can say a lot about these objects because I can delve into the.. What what the traces on their surface tell me about how they were made and how they were used and and if they had say multiple users and various different elements um of the lives of these artifacts and that is amazing. Contextual information. Yeah. 09:43.27 archaeoteacup Yeah, you create your own context. 09:49.88 Amber Yeah, we are really lucky now that there are these methods that are are available to us and then I think that with more developments in different scientific fields archaeology will just keep drawing from these to find out more and more and more about about the past. 10:04.30 archaeoteacup Oh cool. 10:08.68 Ashleigh Airey Tis Very exciting, exciting work and what's you? What's your favorite bit about it. 10:11.64 archaeoteacup Um, the. 10:15.54 Amber Oh I mean that's very hard to pick I Ah I think my favorite part is that I can look at interpretations that are made based on form and we have these wonderfully polished artifacts and. 10:19.90 Ashleigh Airey Um. 10:32.29 Amber People can say oh they're not used and I love to be able to say hang on a minute. Well, that's obviously wrong. Yeah, so and you swear is an amazing tool to feel to do that with. 10:37.66 archaeoteacup You're wrong. 10:38.81 Ashleigh Airey With that. But. 10:45.34 Ashleigh Airey And so is that like kind of the the double other side of the the ax well and God and like it's the most frustrating thing as well that that people have these misconceptions about the objects. 11:01.38 Amber Yeah, um, I get very frustrated really when I I've published information about the function of battle Axes and how they are not purely ceremonial and people still are like oh yeah, but surely they can't be used because they're too fragile. Surely this. So That's very frustrating. Um, and it's also kind of frustrating to doing the research because it takes such a long time I can sit in museums within the microscope for hours and days and days and days and days and it would be really wonderful to to halve that and just do something really quickly. But. 11:20.70 Ashleigh Airey Um. 11:37.19 Amber I Mean that's the nature of the research. 11:38.79 Ashleigh Airey Yeah, and like you said technology will advance and then hopefully you won't have to sit for hours and hours and hours and hours and you'll get this information quickly soon? Yeah yeah. 11:49.94 Amber Yeah, we'll see let's see it depends. How expensive is ah. 11:51.49 archaeoteacup Wouldn't it be great to be able to just scan it like you just scan the object and it's like yes here are all these patches of you swear this is you know this kind of trace that would be lovely like although. 12:01.41 Amber Yeah, you know I actually had a conversation with an archaeologist yesterday about um, 3 d scanning and whether you could use it for use were analysis and I actually think that with the maybe not now. But we're not very far away from being able from being able to use things like ah Rtr and 3 d scanning to. Replicate a surface digitally and that would be amazing. Yeah, like one day we'll be able to do that I'm sure. 12:19.26 archaeoteacup Um, ah on that level that would be very cool although them will be out of a job Amber. So. 12:23.18 Ashleigh Airey Yeah I mean absolutely now you still got to interpret. Oh they was saying something like apparently oh sorry. 12:30.62 Amber Ah, it'll probably be too expensive so they'll have to employ us. 12:34.94 archaeoteacup Ah, ah so we've no, we don't go God this just look time. Um, so you say that you know we've we've talked a bit about your kind of archaeological background. But of course we here are not just doing archaeology. We're doing an archeology of fiction. 12:41.32 Ashleigh Airey No, no go out. 12:53.98 archaeoteacup Specifically fantasy fiction. So do you first of all, do you enjoy reading and second of all, do you enjoy reading fantasy. Oh excellent. Well. 13:02.15 Amber Yes, to both I I Love to read I mean not just I ah various different genres in books but fantasy is probably one of my top ones I Love to read anything that draws me into a different world. 13:16.19 archaeoteacup Are there any particular favorite books or series. 13:18.44 Amber And yeah I mean fantasy is pretty in for that. 13:25.65 Amber Yeah, um, there's a series by a an author called Maggie Fury it's called the artifacts of power which actually is the title's quite relevant to my reset. Um, and it's about this. 13:32.31 archaeoteacup Ah, was about to say that. So. 13:37.34 Ashleigh Airey Um, visited. 13:41.58 Amber Mage called Oren and there are 4 books and they follow her life and how she she's like this young power very powerful female mage and she's struggling against evil and she has to search for these artifacts of power to basically save the world. 13:58.24 archaeoteacup Ah, which is what you're doing in your research. Ah oh that sounds very good I've never heard of these have you heard of their mash. Oh ah. 13:58.99 Ashleigh Airey It's always the case you're sangling the world. 14:00.80 Amber And here you hit. 14:06.20 Ashleigh Airey I think I have yeah but I have never read them. No yeah I have to. 14:08.86 Amber I Recommend them like it. 14:12.95 archaeoteacup They do sound like classic fantasy like proper magic sorcery world saving like ah the. 14:15.56 Amber Yeah, they're they're like late eighty s early 90 s publications. 14:20.19 Ashleigh Airey Well, this is what I was thinking I was thinking and have you read and the axis trilogy by Sarah Douglas starting with battle as yeah, you might like that but axes are everywhere and. 14:27.30 Amber Oh you know I haven't I should do that. That's very appropriate for me. 14:36.18 archaeoteacup Ah, but you could include so many quotes that your papers but like yeah, go so great to have you here Amber now that you are here. Maybe you can help us with the following situation. So. 14:37.11 Ashleigh Airey Yeah, know, yeah, yeah, exactly battle Las Dida da 14:37.59 Amber Yeah, maybe that'd be like a really good paper title. 14:54.00 archaeoteacup Picture the scene. It's a rainy day outside. So the perfect day to start working through the many many boxes of artifacts that have just been delivered from all the different excavations that are happening outside the city walls at the moment suddenly there's a sharp rap at the door. Ah you open it. To see 2 dwarfs waiting on the doorstep carrying between them a box that is really too small for 2 people to be carrying it but they are both gripping it with determination. They inform you that they are representatives of the buzz card door society of dwarfish history. And they need some help with the classification of an item that was recently donated to them. They had you the box. Admittedly with some apparent reluctance and you open it to see a gleaming polished stone axe. So do you do you think you'd be able to help us ah with the this this issue amber. 15:42.91 Amber Um, yeah, so think say. 15:44.84 Ashleigh Airey Oh. 15:45.74 archaeoteacup Yeah, perfect, Awesome! Well then I think that calls for a cuppa I'll just go and pop the cauldron on and we'll be right back.