00:00.00 archaeoteacup Hi you're listening to episode 16 of and my trial where we look at the fantastic side of archeology and the archaeological side of fantasy I'm tilly and this is part 2 of our discussion with special guest drum. Oh Dr Amber Roy 00:09.19 Ashleigh Airey Um, and I'm ash. 00:15.35 Amber Hi. 00:18.97 archaeoteacup Who are chatting all about the mighty acts so to recap on our current situation. We have this beautifully designed polished stone acts that 2 representatives from the buzzcod Dom Society of Dwarfish history need help with classifying now I did realize afterwards. But I'm not sure exactly what issue they're having they both strode off so quickly after handing it over that I completely forgot to ask for further Details. So I've now just sent a message by Carrier Pigeon to ask for more information on that while we wait for their answer. Perhaps we could already talk a bit about the kind of general archeology and history of axes. 00:53.35 Ashleigh Airey Yeah, for like example, when did humans start using Axs you said neolithic but um, but do you think is it further is it the very beginnings of time tell us. 01:04.34 Amber Axis have been used in various different forms for I mean for thousands of years for instance we can look at paleolithic axis so from the beginnings of of homo sapiens and even. Neanderthal species and other other other hominins have created but large hand axes and um, there are various different forms and sizes. Um which is is amazing. This is thousands of years of people coming up with ideas that we can have an ax in in a certain form. 01:38.46 Amber But it's when we get to the late mesolithic and the neolithic that we get the idea of and and like a polished stone axe and that is halfted in the way that we often think about that's when that really starts to appear and then we also start getting developments in access and they change. 01:45.65 Ashleigh Airey Ah. 01:56.90 Amber And and they get perforations their blades and their butts expand they get decorations that yeah, lots of different things start happening as we end up traveling through prehistory. 02:09.50 archaeoteacup And so I mean oh sorry I'll start again and so they sort of you say that they change and they always wear stone tools but this one they specifically mentioned is a polished stone Axe. So What does that. Mean does that mean there's different kinds of Stone x's. 02:28.59 Amber Yeah I will all Axes are well all Axes made of a groundstone are likely to be polished and if the axe is made of a material that can be napped such as flint or shirt or quartz. And then they sometimes are polished but often they are left in their more angular napped shape and but when it comes to more granular stones such as like igneous rocks then the process of making these axes is very very similar to irrelevant whether it's going to turn it into. A um, beautifully curved Battle Axe or a very straight stone axe and that they would grind these axes against stone possibly with another like a grannulist and like material and mortar and that if you keep doing that that will polish an axe. And but also if you so rub an axe with a softer material such as leather and then that creates a really beautifully and polished surface and this I mean most most Axes made of a core stone will have been polished to some degree. 03:32.83 archaeoteacup The ham. 03:41.90 Amber And some are so unbelievably shiny. They're so beautiful and people must have spent hours and hour hours and hour hours ah polishing these and then you get others which are polished just a bit just to make the surface a bit smoother and it's really not that shiny and so there is a bit of variability. 03:45.27 archaeoteacup Um, ah it even now. Oh um, okay. 03:50.58 Ashleigh Airey Ah. 03:59.20 archaeoteacup Which just is that related to kind of what they like Well I guess we'll get into this in a in a bit but like in terms of use is that related to how polished they are I mean a certain things do need polished access for certain things where a more jagged one wouldn't work. 04:00.47 Amber In that. 04:15.61 Amber Um, traditionally. Yeah, um, well yes in terms of use were um if you for instance, if you're using an ax and ah, there's a fracture and a flake of stone is removed then the angular and topography of that damage. Means that it's more likely to break again. So if you then grind it and polish it and make it smoother. It's less likely likely to fracture again and so that's like a functional aspect of it. But traditionally if an axe is really highly Polished. It's seen as as non-functional because. 04:43.97 archaeoteacup Um, okay. 04:50.89 Amber People think well of course someone spent such a long time making that look look beautiful. They'll never use it and that's actually really not the case at all. 04:54.40 archaeoteacup Right? Oh yeah, interesting. Yeah, no very cool, very cool. 05:01.30 Ashleigh Airey Yeah, that's that's very interesting and our axes universal are they found in different or specific cultures and especially like in prehistory and stuff. 05:14.38 Amber Yeah I mean I think it's it's amazing that you can find access across I think across the world in prehistoric societies where people who haven't been in contact with each other start producing these forms on their own but there were also some. Ethnographic examples of people in the last one hundred to 200 years and various places in in the world have made polished stone axis which look very very similar to neolithic polish stone aes and and you know there are some museum collections that have both and they've got a bit confused. 05:51.71 Ashleigh Airey Oh Wow So that. 05:52.97 Amber Um, in some places so it's it's It's ah like a development of thought I think that naturally comes when people think about what they might need to use a certain material for. 06:03.56 Ashleigh Airey Yeah, and so they're very similar. The typologies are almost the same but that thousands of years apart 06:13.33 Amber Yeah I mean for for Neolithic polishstone Axis which is that which are very flat then they are very similar when you get to Axis like battle Axis then because these ah have very distinctive forms. Um, that are quite regionally specific. 06:18.21 Ashleigh Airey Um. 06:30.70 Amber Then it's more difficult to find say something made in the last two hundred years look the same as a middle neolithic b battle axe um, yeah, but then again within prehistory you do find similar things with perforated stone axes. So ah. Simple shaft hole acts and ah they are found in context dating from the middle to late meolithic up until the late bronze age all across Europe and that's probably because it's quite a simple and obvious and very functional tool that. 07:09.60 Ashleigh Airey Moves. 07:09.87 Amber Most people will go yeah right? I mean that's quite easy to use and make we'll just do that. Um, and then you also get things like um, the middle neolithic b battle axes in in Scandinavia and then battle axes which are a little bit similar in early bronze age Britain. 07:12.80 archaeoteacup So. 07:29.55 Amber And that's a good thousand years later 07:30.47 archaeoteacup Yeah, which and so you just sort of mentioned that like it's it's kind of indeed a tool. It's sort of yeah, there's only so many ways to make an axe like it's kind of one of those universal tools. But do you think that everyone would have been able to make a stone ax I mean you've said that like all the polishing and everything would have taken lots of time. 07:39.42 Amber Yeah. 07:49.76 archaeoteacup Now I know that this is a word that a lot of materials ah people hate hearing. But do you think there were specialists in the axe making or was it kind of something that everyone could have done. 07:54.89 Ashleigh Airey Now. 08:01.99 Amber Um, yes, it would take a lot of time but I think it's quite an easy skill. You don't need access to specific resources or that would change depending on if they're making access from a stone source that can be controlled then that would change their access to resources. 08:15.50 archaeoteacup And. 08:19.51 Amber But in the scenario where there isn't access' there's no restrictions on that then it's easy to get the the things you need to make to make these and then it's it's the kind of thing where you don't need to learn say how to smelt something you don't need to learn kind of chemistry and. 08:26.69 archaeoteacup The. 08:39.12 Amber Things like that you can watch somebody and then give it a go. 08:41.73 archaeoteacup Ah, which I guess changes probably when metal Axes start to come into play because I guess with stone everyone's doing kind of stoneworking or flint napping and all that kind of stuff but then once metal happens then it might become a little more specialized. 08:57.89 Amber Yeah, um, there are many different elements that can contribute to things like this um that you you have to think about who has access to what resources and who's going to be controlling knowledge and all of these different things and whether they're making. 09:14.18 Amber Whether for whatever reason there's a set group of people making these items even if it's easy to access resources and knowledge or or not or whether it's the kind of thing where anybody could make something Um, then you know that that really really changes it. 09:18.91 archaeoteacup Are. 09:28.26 archaeoteacup Um, so. 09:32.90 archaeoteacup Ah, oh. 09:33.84 Amber But you can look at the stone to really work that in a neolithic polishstone axies of Britain are made from very distinctive stone types from specific very specific sources and whereas early bronze age stone battleaxes in Britain are made from any kind of stone. 09:34.58 Ashleigh Airey Well, that's why is yeah. 09:52.64 Amber They're going off toree slopes and rivers and they're getting a bit of rock and they're going oh that looks about right? That's like the matrix is nice. Oh what about the ro nice shape I'm Goingnna make something and that's a completely different avenue of getting stone and can mean something completely different. 10:00.18 archaeoteacup That'll do. 10:09.44 Ashleigh Airey And so do you do you find that there's there's trade going on in these areas. Do you find that that people are using stones from different areas that they do not live in and they're making these Axis or is it only the resources that are in there. 10:10.50 archaeoteacup Um, ah. 10:26.15 Ashleigh Airey Environment and their landscape. 10:28.45 Amber Um, for neolithic stone axies. We find those from specific sources. For instance, there's a source in the lake district um, it's a peak Piper Stickle that's a very a s stone quarry essentially at a very high point. Um, and that's called group 6 and actors made of group. 6 are found all across the Uk that the most most prolific axe group um traded all over the place and yeah and I mean other rocks as well. You see? um. 10:55.96 archaeoteacup From just 1 place. Well. 11:05.11 Amber Group 7 axes they're made from a source in North Wales and you see their distribution mostly kind of slightly more locally within the north welsh community. But then there are further some that go further afield. Um, there's there's ah, a lot of work on the distribution of of these but they are. 11:06.61 archaeoteacup Are. 11:17.43 archaeoteacup Ah, who. 11:23.59 Amber Definitely There's no way that they that could have happened accidentally and that there there was a lot of movement of these objects. Um, but even even British early Bronze age Stone Battle Axes Some of those have clearly moved. 11:24.86 Ashleigh Airey No. 11:25.83 archaeoteacup Um, hold. 11:40.13 Amber Some way so there's evidence of moving from like south to west and in in Scotland and from South North of england until to South Scotland so not across the entire country but they are moving some distance. Some of them. 11:58.37 archaeoteacup Um, Wow Very cool. 11:59.50 Ashleigh Airey Yeah,, that's per cool. So What's the kind of telly talked a bit about metal there and coming into kind of you know the Bronze age from from the neolithic and even into the iron age and when you start to get different types of Access. What's the functional difference between stone and metal axes. 12:21.71 Amber Um, so both stone and metal Axes can be used in many of the same ways so chopping and splitting wood. Both will be able to be used very easily in the same way but they are both very different materials and that actually means that the form they take. And also the way that they are made really influences is is this it influences their form and it influences um their use. So Axe is made of stone often. Their blades are much wider than metal axes. 12:55.21 Ashleigh Airey Mother. 12:55.70 archaeoteacup Um, friend. 12:56.96 Amber And that means that metal Axes can be used for much finer finer work um like chopping and shaping whereas a stone ax that you could do this for the same thing but the traces you leave behind are going to be much wider and maybe not so accurate. Um, or fine. Um, so that that may really influence. 13:11.85 archaeoteacup Ah. 13:16.91 Amber The decision If you have a stone axe and a flint and ah and a metal axe which one you would use Um, but also because Stone Axes tend to have slightly wider blades and some of them also have quite nice wide butts. Um, then. 13:20.56 archaeoteacup Oh. 13:31.68 Amber They are much better than battle Axes at being used as hammers. 13:33.79 archaeoteacup Right. 13:33.88 Ashleigh Airey Yeah, who's going to say that you could like use it in different ways. Yeah. 13:38.90 archaeoteacup Which and some have and even some metal Axes later on have that kind of thing right? where there's an axe on one side and a hammer on the other side which I guess is then trying to copy almost the earlier stone Axes you could say or is that completely wrong. 13:53.21 Amber Yeah, possibly or they've just identified that it would be useful to have a hammer end. 14:01.94 Ashleigh Airey I Mean it's always useful to have a hammer around to be fair. Yeah, like yeah I like ah like a soft palded hammer like yeah and but yeah, exactly especially if you're building things or you're doing just general. 14:02.30 archaeoteacup I Mean right? you have those nails like all where my ax. Ah. 14:07.52 Amber Um I see something. 14:17.90 Ashleigh Airey Life I think it's probably a good thing to incorporate a hammer somewhere. 14:22.34 archaeoteacup But Bra but vo as you're up. Ah. 14:26.14 Ashleigh Airey What oh that's me, either. You just changed it. Sorry no I've already said that Oh no hang. 14:31.10 archaeoteacup Yes I know sorry I thought we're ready out of time I'll skip that question to do it later I thought you were watching it? Sorry Ah, ah. 14:33.20 Amber A solution. 14:39.14 Ashleigh Airey Ding everything. Oh God by snow good me I thought it was you sorry? Okay not I was like wait and why she what you was singing a tune about a hammer I was like what she did. 14:48.28 archaeoteacup There was She's like why she many pigeon noises. 14:56.91 Ashleigh Airey And but there's like some sort of like joke I had to get it was so confusing right? No ha. No no, no's like avenue or you were just like awkward like an awkward night I don't know. 14:57.48 Amber Ah. 14:58.61 archaeoteacup Ah, um, ah, don't you know that well-knowned So oh but ah have a time. Do do to do. 15:15.24 Ashleigh Airey Anyway, and ok, ah tilly I think the pigeon has come back. 15:18.30 archaeoteacup Are excellent. Okay, well let's just take a very quick break while I read the reply and we'll be right back.