00:00.00 archaeoteacup Need to I shoot sorry Rachel I'm just throwing myself out here right? Okay there you go. They're got it place out so I can see the time and the script. Okay hello. You're listening to episode 17 of and my troel where we look at the fantastic side of archeology and the archaeological side of. To see my name's tilly and today we're delving into the creatures of the night those that feast on the blood of the living why yes ash vampires. 00:20.91 Ashleigh Airey An eyemash. 00:31.70 Ashleigh Airey Um, oh my God vampires How hell yes. 00:35.94 archaeoteacup So yes, we're looking at the blood suckers of legends immortal beings who stalk the nights in search of prey because well so ash we've been given a bit of a problem to fix one of the latest excavations by Helsing Holmes has hit a bit of a snag and of course as you're aware ash. They're one of the biggest sustainable housing companies this side of the fictional world they provide homes for most of the mythical creatures on this land. It's a bit of a reparative measure since the helsings often hunted their ancestors during the dark ages who are less said about that the better. But. Now Helsing's recent development to house the rapidly growing werewolf population since the big bite of 2019 has hit a massive snag because they found burials. 01:09.63 Ashleigh Airey Um, ah. 01:19.14 Ashleigh Airey Oh no, that's I mean that's not really a problem I mean we can get a team together. You know oh. 01:24.66 archaeoteacup Wait No no, it's that unfortunately that's not all they found human burials with vampire teeth buried with them. 01:34.39 Ashleigh Airey Oh okay, no no hang on. Are we talking about dentures grave goods here What we're talking. 01:40.70 archaeoteacup Grave goods indeed. So there was a bag placed behind the head during the burial and they're in a number of different burials by the way so along with Swords Silver Silver Bullets and also a few organic finds that have a remarkable appearance of stakes. 01:58.49 Ashleigh Airey Ah, so we're talking Hunter Burials Maybe even Van helsing associated burials. Okay, well, that's a bit of a sticky situation but um, can I ask? How do we know their vampire teeth. 01:58.56 archaeoteacup Are. 02:12.79 archaeoteacup Ah, they've been identified by the living vampire who happens to be missing their fangs exactly. But luckily I happen to have a specialist on call right now assh I'd like you to meet Jessica fondom who just so. 02:21.45 Ashleigh Airey Ah, this is a pickle. 02:30.80 archaeoteacup Happens to be a forensic anthropologist and osteo archaeologist and she knows quite a bit about teeth. Welcome Jess. 02:38.38 Ashleigh Airey Oh my god hi lovely to meet you and thanks so much for joining us and tell us a little bit about yourself. Jess. 02:44.80 archaeoteacup Because actually well and I must say I said teeth is that your specialist his teeth. 02:46.87 Jess Well first thanks for having me but hi ah it was um I've I've kept I've gathered a few degrees over the years um 02:51.42 Ashleigh Airey Yeah, isn't your special son. 03:03.64 Jess So at the moment I'm actually an art conservator. Um, yes, yes, but ah, my archeology degree the research focused on aging or estimating age at death in archaeological context. 03:04.20 archaeoteacup Also useful. We'll keep that in mind for future episodes. 03:04.89 Ashleigh Airey So yeah, very useful. 03:19.85 archaeoteacup Very cool and and in terms of so you're a forensic anthropologist and an osteo archeologist. How did that come about how did you get into that. 03:21.30 Jess Using peace. 03:21.34 Ashleigh Airey Oh you're gonna be very handy. 03:33.39 Jess Ah, well, um, forensic and topology I don't know if you remember the show bones that was on ah yet pretty good. Ah that came out right before I was supposed to go to Uni and I was like oh that's a job I should get that job. 03:36.43 archaeoteacup I. 03:37.25 Ashleigh Airey Oh my God I Love Bones love phones. But. 03:50.70 Jess So I'll go study that um. 03:52.49 archaeoteacup Ah, imagine if you'd be watching a different show like your life would have been so different. But. 03:55.69 Ashleigh Airey Yeah, like cash can fit as a like one of the hammer. Yeah, it goes to venturees. Oh my god. 04:01.70 archaeoteacup Ah. 04:02.33 Jess Ghost adventures. Um, well what's funny is that around the same time I was watching um Buffy The Vampire Slayer which seemed um, less marketable somehow? Um, but. 04:13.39 Ashleigh Airey Um. 04:15.60 Ashleigh Airey There would be a I mean it would be hard to get work I think but you never know dangerous very dangerous. Yeah yeah. 04:15.87 archaeoteacup Ah, well, it's useful today. Ah. 04:19.44 Jess Um, yeah, yeah I feel like it's a sort of underpaid profession vampire hunting we'll have to ask the he things. But. 04:23.39 archaeoteacup A lot of freelance work. Yeah. 04:33.63 archaeoteacup Paid under the table. Um, but okay, okay, and then I I'm not sure if this is a question that we'll be dealing with later on but in terms of forensic anthropology and osteo archeology is there a difference. 04:33.88 Jess And. 04:34.52 Ashleigh Airey Yeah, secret and. 04:49.58 Jess Um, sort of yes and sort of no so forensic anthropology really focuses on ah more recent deaths that could be related to a criminal case. So like the word forensics means that it's somehow related to law in some way or other and so if there's a suspicious death in the woods. 05:02.94 archaeoteacup O. 05:08.90 Jess Like a skeleton is found in the woods and they're like oh this could be 200 years old or could be a hundred or could be five or a month um that can all sort of fall under the forensics category and then osteo archeology is um, like more distinctly. 05:13.30 archaeoteacup Got it. 05:27.77 Jess Old burials or archaeologically found human remains. 05:29.80 archaeoteacup Not it right? Okay, okay. 05:35.77 Ashleigh Airey Right? Okay, that makes sense. Yeah, that makes sense. Um, and so you're not in the kind of field at the moment but is there anything that you're working on right now that's related or has been related or um in your art consertoire. 05:51.57 Jess Um, um so a few two summers ago I worked on a ancient egyptian mummy for a small university in Pennsylvania um, yeah Pes Ed hi 06:00.56 archaeoteacup Um, ah. 06:06.28 Ashleigh Airey What's he doing in Pennsylvania what they doing. 06:08.50 Jess You know there are mummies all over the states and they are in the strangest places honestly, um this one they kept in a library. Ah, there was yeah from like that I think they got it in like the 1880 s and so. 06:17.45 archaeoteacup Ah. 06:18.70 Ashleigh Airey Oh. 06:25.85 archaeoteacup I'm a Librarian's art. Ah. 06:26.93 Jess Ah, there was a lot of slight stories about like so student pranks and like bringing it into dorms and so what was very interesting specifically was that this this mummy is so heavy. There is no way they carried it into anybody's doorroom. Um. 06:32.57 Ashleigh Airey Oh my god. 06:42.61 archaeoteacup Um. 06:44.40 Jess Maybe the skull because it was unwrapped like just the head was unwrapped, but the rest wasn't um so that was fun to both work on it in an art conservation context but also in a osteological context because her skull was visible. 06:45.65 archaeoteacup Oh well. 06:46.35 Ashleigh Airey Wow. 06:59.10 Ashleigh Airey That's so interesting that's mad and was anything like I Just like like imagine like I I can't picture it I mean another victorians are ah obviously took a lot of stuff and they used to eat mummies. Did you know that I found that out recently. 07:05.82 archaeoteacup Ah, can't even fix her. 07:15.15 archaeoteacup I've heard of this? Yeah no I mean who hasn't you know, nibbled on a little rapt ancient carcass I mean that's. 07:15.88 Ashleigh Airey Was delicacy. Yeah oh we had people I was like tell you um, we're different are different people because I had. 07:16.20 Jess Um, yes, and. 07:23.64 Jess Um, yeah, um. 07:30.13 Jess Ah, or or turn it into paint pigment. You know that's mummy brown. 07:31.50 Ashleigh Airey Yeah, the brown mummy brown. Yeah, no, it's actually called Ah, there was a painter that exclusively used mummy brown and he did I don't know who it is but I saw it online and he didn't know what it was and then he found out and he. 07:32.75 archaeoteacup Yeah, yeah, ah Bobby Brown which is I know but it just sounds so horrible like. 07:51.27 archaeoteacup Oh oh my God Oh well, that's I mean that that's I feel benefit for him now I was thinking oh my gosh. What a horrible person using crushed up mummies but that fainting and then okay he didn't realize oh oh yeah. 07:51.68 Ashleigh Airey Cried He kept crying and tried to destroy all of his work because it was human remains he was really upset about it. Yeah. 07:53.90 Jess Oh oh, that's keep text. 08:03.47 Ashleigh Airey Yeah, he had no clue and it was of the time like he was Victorian I Just can't remember his name now I'll try and find it link it somewhere. 08:10.50 archaeoteacup Yeah, yeah, we'll we'll randomly so slip it in somewhere in the rest of the episode there you go. There's your teaser everyone listening in listen in to the rest of this episode to hear who which painter news mummy brown and so so obviously you have moved on to to something different Now you've got in a slightly different direction. 08:15.80 Jess Um, yes, she. 08:16.77 Ashleigh Airey Um, and he yeah. 08:28.33 archaeoteacup But if we go back to kind of forensic anthropology osteoareology teeth um of what sort of did you find kind of enjoyable about that topic I mean you did it for so long. You did a couple of degrees as you said in in that topic. So what was for you The most kind of exciting thing about that topic. 08:31.60 Jess 50 08:44.66 Jess Um, what I found really interesting is that you can um, figure out when a Skeleton was damaged. Ah so like skeletal trauma is different depending on if you're alive or if you're dead or if you're very very dead. Um. 08:51.69 archaeoteacup Yeah, look. 08:59.19 archaeoteacup Okay, very very touch. 09:01.62 Jess So in on an archeological context. Um, that's interesting because you could say oh is this a trowel that broke this rib or was this rib already broken. Um, you know like those kind of um timeline context Clues um can be visible. 09:07.33 archaeoteacup Hello. 09:14.39 archaeoteacup Yeah, and um, yeah. 09:20.35 Jess And so that's really interesting to me. Um I don't know how I ended up with teeth and all honesty. But somehow I did. Yeah yeah. 09:22.78 Ashleigh Airey That is very interesting. 09:29.66 Ashleigh Airey Someone's got to take the teeth. 09:32.68 archaeoteacup Ah I Just like your definition of very very dead. It's like you know that that skit of if you go out or if you're going out out like if you. 09:37.98 Jess Yeah, exactly Yes, there are different stages of dead. Did you not know this? yes. 09:38.31 Ashleigh Airey I Was like if you're pregnant or you're very pregnant. Yeah yeah. 09:44.33 archaeoteacup I mean that's what we're going to find out today like dead and there's undead. Yeah. 09:48.27 Ashleigh Airey Ah, yeah God Tilly I suppose it is actually yeah yeah, you know So if that's the most interesting bit. What's the most frustrating that you've had and in your um specialism. 09:50.48 Jess Yeah, what are vampires Cow Perized does 10:05.84 Ashleigh Airey Frustrating thing. 10:07.75 Jess Um, I think 1 thing. Well one it's it's a very repetitive field especially especially osteoareology because if you're excavating it like an entire cemetery and you have say a hundred skeletons. You're running a lot of the same tests. So you're taking the same measurements and you're you know, looking at different like. Data points and and so you're just collecting data about these skeletons and so the the skeletal trauma and the paleopathology so like any sort of um illness um that could affect bones is not necessarily. 10:37.83 Ashleigh Airey I am open. 10:38.56 archaeoteacup Ah, from home. 10:41.28 Jess Studied immediately and so it's like it's just a lot of data collection which I find rather boring. Um I like the more like oh look at this oddity and what can I find out about this oddity but the other problem is that um, going back to Paleopathology is that um, a lot of. 10:48.20 archaeoteacup Ah, fair. 11:01.29 Jess Illnesses can present similarly so like you know like if you have lesions on the rib. So like there's some sort of like like weirdly molded bone on the inside of the ribs that could be a sign of like tuberculosis if they had it long enough. 11:01.36 archaeoteacup Oh. 11:15.93 archaeoteacup The her. 11:18.78 Jess But it could also be a sign of some sort of cancer. It could be a sign of some other respiratory disease. It could be I don't know assist. It could be. There's so many things that these things can be and so like you can say oh they likely had these things or they may have had this problem or. 11:24.95 archaeoteacup Um. 11:37.46 Jess They could have died from this but there's no real certainty and so that's a little frustrating. 11:39.91 archaeoteacup I Feel like that's the main thing with archeology in general like everything you say is like but this is just purely based on my own interpretation of this particular side and yeah, it's rich. 11:41.44 Ashleigh Airey Yeah. 11:45.32 Jess Um, yeah. 11:53.41 Jess It's certainly ritualistic. So. 11:53.70 Ashleigh Airey A sting we need a ritual button we can seen this let you ah. 11:59.10 archaeoteacup We need a ritual button I know I'm going to make a little audio going rutro wall with like echoing and Rachel can just add it in whenever we say it you I exactly? Yes, we should do that. 12:07.16 Ashleigh Airey Can you be view? Yeah yeah, oh my God You should definitely do that Really of the goods. Yeah fantastic brilliant. So since we're in a fantasy world. 12:09.48 Jess It makes me think of the Clackston on um Qi I think we we. 12:17.78 archaeoteacup Ah. 12:21.17 Jess I. 12:25.95 Ashleigh Airey And a fantasy context. The next question we have for you is do you actually enjoy reading fantasy. 12:30.51 Jess I I Love fantasy. One of my top genres I don't think it would have been on this podcast if that been a no answer. But. 12:30.91 archaeoteacup Yes, you no I hate me. 12:34.30 Ashleigh Airey You Oh my goodness I've been terrible. Otherwise. 12:42.66 Ashleigh Airey Oh yeah, that's fair. So what's your favorite fantasy book or or even series. 12:44.88 archaeoteacup Ah. 12:52.57 Jess So um, although that is a really challenging question. Um one that I read recently? Um, because you probably have this problem where you know you read a ton of books but some of them don't grab your attention as much, but this one I could not put down so like Reddit in 1 sitting. 13:04.96 archaeoteacup Um, oh ah. 13:09.98 Jess Um, it was girl who fell beneath the sea by Axio. Ah so it's a Korean mythology retelling um of the the sea Gods bride. Um, so it's just it's really well written lovely like the like the images that you conjure up in your mind while you're reading it. Ah. 13:11.73 Ashleigh Airey Um, um, um, who. 13:17.40 archaeoteacup Um. 13:22.42 Ashleigh Airey Ah. 13:28.32 Ashleigh Airey Oh it sounds good. A. 13:28.61 Jess It's so good. 13:29.45 archaeoteacup That's sitting on my shelf next to my bed coming closer and closer to the top of the Toby red pile I feel like a certain american I know gave that to me. 13:34.82 Jess Um, yeah. 13:41.71 Jess Um, weird weird coincidence right? No but that's totally fine. 13:43.90 archaeoteacup I'm afraid I haven't read it yet, but it is on my pile and I'm working my way through it gradually. 13:44.31 Ashleigh Airey Ah, how strange. 13:50.68 Ashleigh Airey Ah, is it underneath all that Cho Terry Pratchetts ah 13:51.35 archaeoteacup The dairy Wretchs have been read there 5 They all good. 13:57.99 Jess Oh I did finally read the Terry Pratchetts Matilda he um. 13:59.70 archaeoteacup Yeah, another word but does I've also sent ones to ash to try false as well. 14:07.63 Ashleigh Airey Um, yes, she has weird sisters. 14:12.30 Jess Oh see I started with the audiobooks and I did going postal first. So I know it's out of order but because it's later you get like a better I don't know. 14:17.44 archaeoteacup That now it is a better overview. This is the problem with those ones but that's like actually Rachel our lovely editor who's currently probably listening to this right now going off a carate Matilda stop talking about hey rat um, the Jerry Garve meeting the other day she said but all. 14:18.77 Ashleigh Airey Ah yes I did go in blue girl as well. 14:31.91 Jess Stay on topic. 14:36.58 archaeoteacup I Downloaded color of magic which is good but at the same time I did tell her or if you might be disappointed if you start with that one because it's not the best. But anyway sorry I apologize a I'm really sorry I genuinely did not meet that you brought it up this time. Ah. 14:39.67 Ashleigh Airey Ah. 14:50.38 Ashleigh Airey I know I did I did I thought I thought you needed it. 14:52.48 archaeoteacup But oh don't worry. There are plenty of vampires a fresh we're going to get far. They're going to be many examples. So. 15:01.87 Jess Um, oh but for a vampire series I highly recommend. Um, strange practice by Vivian Shaw um it's about Greta Van helsing and she's a doctor for monsters. It's so cute. 15:02.54 Ashleigh Airey M. 15:09.42 Ashleigh Airey Ooh. 15:12.76 archaeoteacup I've read that one I liked it. It was good. It was very sweet. Yeah, ah yeah, ah. 15:15.53 Ashleigh Airey Night. 15:17.10 Jess Yeah, and there's mummies in it and trolls and yeah, very fun. So highly recommend that. 15:21.60 Ashleigh Airey Okay, that was a good one gonna get it. 15:25.82 archaeoteacup Ah, so Jess do you think that you will be able to help us with the ah problem that we're having here good oh wait hang on a sag sorry my books are starting to fly around the room again hang on. They must need to tell me something let me just quickly talk to them. 15:35.42 Jess Um I do hope so. 15:43.91 archaeoteacup And we will be right back.