00:00.00 archaeoteacup Hi you're listening to episode 8 of and my trial where we look at the fantastic side of archeology and the archeological side of fantasy I'm tilly and today we are going to be talking all about time travel. Which. 00:08.94 Ashleigh Airey And I'm ash. 00:18.47 archaeoteacup First of all most important question would you actually want to travel back in time. Ash. 00:23.49 Ashleigh Airey Oh ah, see this is a really difficult one because I think we as archeologists get this question a lot which you um Era would you like to travel back to now would there's two ways I'd have to do it and it would be either. 00:27.27 archaeoteacup And. 00:37.50 Ashleigh Airey I would have to be in a bubble and no one could see me so I wouldn't be Ben as witch something a law. Yeah yeah, like I'm just off there. You know I can see everything I can't and people can't interact with me but I can interact with everything or and I'd have to go to a time and place that would be like quite. You know. 00:41.48 archaeoteacup Ah, like for and the wall kind of thing almost like yeah. 00:50.54 archaeoteacup The. Yeah. 00:56.65 Ashleigh Airey Safe women to travel back. Do um, was that being said though I would always like to go back to the Mesolithic scotland and I know that sounds strange because I don't know what it would be like but I would just like to see what the hair was like and like their culture and the customs and the clothing and. Stuff. So if I could be in the bubble I would go back. There. Yeah. 01:18.45 archaeoteacup Yeah, fair enough fair enough so pure practically minded in that respect but indeed well and the nice think it. So I mean you have been a guest on my other podcast teabreak time travel where I always ask the guests this very question where do you want to travel back in time to. 01:26.25 Ashleigh Airey Practically minded. Yes. 01:32.39 Ashleigh Airey Yes. 01:37.47 archaeoteacup And what I really find interesting is that all of the archaeologists that I've had on have always said pretty similar stuff in terms of like I I don't know what I was necessarily expecting when I set up that question but I was always imagining. People will be like I want to go back and see the building of the coliseum or I want to see the crowning of King George or you know something like that. But it's always. Something like you said like no I just want to go back and like see how people lived and like see their everyday life which I find quite interesting. 01:56.40 Ashleigh Airey Um. 02:03.26 Ashleigh Airey Yeah, definitely I think I'd like to know what people's names were and what type of names they had as well because like that's 1 thing that we can never find out in archeology usually in prehistory anyway, like I remember I was on a kissed burial and I was like what what this person's name was like. 02:13.45 archaeoteacup Um. 02:21.31 Ashleigh Airey Did they? what was their name. What did they do? What was that last thing that they saw like stuff like that rather than oh I'll go and see you know the burning of Alexandria and you know all that you know stuff all like the 7 wonders of the world I think that's. 02:31.90 archaeoteacup Ah. 02:34.79 archaeoteacup Earth. 02:37.86 Ashleigh Airey Yeah, archaeologists. But that's what we're interested in aren't we. We're interested in everyday activity um not the big things. Yeah, maybe because you like maybe if I thinking about it I might go and like to brodka and orkney. 02:41.45 archaeoteacup Yeah, well I did the stories. Yeah exactly I Yeah no I think. 02:55.93 Ashleigh Airey And I might see like you know the the stones of the nest or the ah ring abroad get being like erected and seeing how they did that and kind of debunk some stuff I think that would be fun. 03:04.46 archaeoteacup That's I mean that would be a fun thing I actually just recorded my December episode for g break time drama I'm going to do a midi plug here because I asked my guest and she was talking about. Ah ah someone who is basically going to be the first potential first empress of Japan. And she would want to go back and see her because apparently there's like a lot of debate about whether she actually exists or anything and we were saying it would be really great to go back and then like have her right on a piece of stone you know yes I was here you know or like make a little a little time capsule for future archaeologists with a little like selfie stuff. 03:30.81 Ashleigh Airey Um, I was here? Yeah, um. 03:36.95 archaeoteacup Ah, so indeed that could be a really nice way of debunking myths. Although I guess people would there be like but you have affected the time continuum right? Yeah yeah, just take photos. Yeah I think that's a good idea. It was actually a very interesting. 03:44.24 Ashleigh Airey Well if I was in a bubble nobody could interact me and I was just watching then that'll be fine right? Yeah, yeah, exactly yeah. 03:55.87 archaeoteacup Another went. We're plugging all the shows on the apn today because the recent episode of the archeology show. Ah some point last month. Um also talked all about time travel. So and they went into full on discussion about like what the rules of time travel are and everything which I'm just saying we're probably not going to go back into it today because. 04:03.30 Ashleigh Airey Um, you. 04:15.00 archaeoteacup And that would take a whole episode I think that so let's let's assume that we're doing something similar ish to to what Assh is mentioning. Um, but yes so I so I want need to imagine therefore that you haven't traveled back in time yourself unfortunately funding didn't allow you to also be on the team but some of your colleagues have. 04:15.37 Ashleigh Airey Ah. 04:34.23 archaeoteacup And they've brought back with them a bunch of different objects which first of all I know what you're thinking what? like why would they do that? Um, because you know you're affecting time scales and all of this kind of stuff. Um, so this I have taken inspiration today from a book which we read actually I think was one of the first books we read um with the archeo book club which I'm not going to ask ash what she thought about it because I think it was a more negative review than than my experience of it. 04:52.51 Ashleigh Airey Okay. 05:04.19 archaeoteacup Ah, which was just one damn thing after another by Jody Taylor which is the first of the chronicles of St Mary's books and spoiler alert therefore for everyone who hasn't read it. It's about time travel. Um, it's basically practical time travel. So it's sort of ah a department of a university that actually has little time travel. Pods and capsules and everything and all sorts of shenanigans and adventures ensue. But at some point in the first book and again spoiler alerts boiler alert. Um, they work out so one of the rules of the time travel is that you can't take anything back with you. Um, because it won't actually it'll it'll be destroyed in the process like it. It. It won't survive the journey. Um, you could go there and back because you're from the future but you can't take somebody from the past and bring it forward to the future makes sense right because they'll die or something I don't know um, but 1 thing that they did work out is that you could take something if it was going to be destroyed. In the past so something that wouldn't have survived anyway, you can bring it forward and then it will survive. It's this whole complicated thing. It turns out, there's like a birding pine comb anyway, so they they go to the they decide to go to the library of Alexandria actually which as mentioned before and try to rescue as many. Um, of the burnt manuscripts as they possibly can. Um and yeah, sort sort something out in that way. So this is what's happened in this case, let's say that they've brought back objects that you know can be brought back or you know so I don't know. 06:30.16 Ashleigh Airey Um. 06:35.20 archaeoteacup Basically they've brought back objects and it's totally fine and it falls within the rules of whatever time travel thing you want to do So first of all as we are talking about fantasy fantasy fiction in this case and the sort of the books surrounding it have you read any books that feature time travel time travel esh. 06:51.62 Ashleigh Airey Oh gosh. Yeah, definitely I mean there's a few I mean you've got h d wells the time machine and you've got one of my favorite books actually both series is by Deborah Harkness and it's the um. 06:53.68 archaeoteacup Ill. 06:58.33 archaeoteacup Um. 07:07.28 Ashleigh Airey The all souls series and the second book is shadow of night and they go back to Elizabethan England in London and she's a historian who writes her herself and it's very well done I mean it's as you know, fancy elementmons vampires and witches and demons and stuff. Um, but it's fantastic. You really feel the past. 07:14.42 archaeoteacup Ah, really. 07:20.90 archaeoteacup So. 07:26.27 Ashleigh Airey And it really evokes the past. Um, and it's very very cool, very cool and they do kind of interrupt the past as well. So. 07:30.36 archaeoteacup Um, I still need to read these books. Oh interesting. There's also there's a very cool series that I started which I need to get back into actually called the what's it called the history of dodo. Um, which ah. 07:41.77 Ashleigh Airey Will you. 07:44.96 archaeoteacup Is all about this department which works out how to travel in time that respected this sort of but how it's about all the ethics of it and all the morals surrounding it and all that kind of stuff which is also quite interesting thinking about that I found that was more of a like a secret government agency type thing rather than like an established thing. 07:52.96 Ashleigh Airey You like books that have like departments though like that. 08:03.12 Ashleigh Airey Um, I Okay yeah. 08:04.84 archaeoteacup Um, and it involves like witches and there's all sorts of things. It's it's a cool 1 Actually it's very cool I need to reread it because I haven't read it for ages and of course guess who also wrote about time travel as that I don't never have written about how Terry Pra look 08:15.57 Ashleigh Airey Ah, you oh. 08:20.14 Ashleigh Airey Oh da that was my second guess. 08:24.36 archaeoteacup Us has written about so of course there's a disc worldd book that features time travel as well. There's actually a couple. There's a thief of time and there's also the night watch where commander vimes goes back in time and meets his younger self which is also very interesting. Interesting concept. 08:30.87 Ashleigh Airey There you go. 08:38.47 Ashleigh Airey Oh yeah, but there isn't that looking to like a does not destroy the world or something that's on the truth. 08:43.29 archaeoteacup That well so it's this whole. It turns out that like it. What? okay spoiler alert for for night, watch you by Terry Pratchett it turns out that like he was already there you know like the his his mentor was him like it. It. 08:54.45 Ashleigh Airey What just happened that happened that needed happen and I ski. 09:01.89 archaeoteacup It's this whole thing. Although it's still a bit unclear to me whether in fact, that was the case or whether it was just that like the he became the mentor but there had been someone else there anyway I don't know is yeah but but. 09:10.26 Ashleigh Airey You know? Well, that's the thing does he not remember that he was his own mentor. 09:14.98 archaeoteacup Yeah, this is the question so it's all that it all gets gone I think Terry Fratcher makes a bit of fun of that as well about the whole thing of you know, remembering things and all that kind of stuff. But yeah, it's interesting to see especially from sort of the old classic like you mentioned HTWells and the kind of that that time travel idea. 09:20.30 Ashleigh Airey Is. 09:30.92 Ashleigh Airey Um, me. 09:34.65 archaeoteacup And then indeed it's just developed so much. There's so much almost law around time travel as like a fantasy concept I mean there's so many discussions even about moving away from books. But you know things like back to the future and sort of like but that wouldn't work. Yeah. 09:37.97 Ashleigh Airey Yes. 09:47.90 Ashleigh Airey But and yeah timeline have you ever read or so seen the phone line. Oh yeah, that has a lot of concepts in it because it's like you know and archeologists that go back to Medieval France 09:54.55 archaeoteacup I have not but I have heard a lot about it. 10:05.52 Ashleigh Airey And kind of interrupt the timeline. Um, and it's all nefarious and like government stuff and the book's much more detailed on the science than the the film is the film's just Jared Butler and Paul Walker and Billy Connley just running around medieval France which it is amazing. 10:18.48 archaeoteacup I Mean that sounds amazing. 10:24.12 Ashleigh Airey I Would definitely recommend watching it, especially if you want something that's just like a fun romp to time. Um, but that that they have a lot of concept around what you can and can't do in the past um and clearly lots of things in that don't do happen and impact the future and stuff and you can come back from the past. 10:27.20 archaeoteacup F. 10:43.58 Ashleigh Airey But you can only do it so many times and then your organs start to like move around and you get chopped up a bit and yeah, so you can only go back so many times as well. So yeah, there's some interesting concepts about time travel. Um, and how people interact with the past in the past, it's quite cool. 10:47.80 archaeoteacup Ah, oh gosh. Okay. 10:57.29 archaeoteacup Ah, ah yeah, and I mean from an archeological perspective I guess you could say well of course you know I suppose to be the initial reaction would be well no, you shouldn't go and you shouldn't interfere with the past and. 11:02.61 Ashleigh Airey And. 11:15.10 archaeoteacup You know that would be immoral and wrong and kind of that wouldn't work but would you agree with that or would you be of the the devil's advocate opinion. 11:24.95 Ashleigh Airey Um, I don't really know I I think perhaps you shouldn't meddle but then I'm a bit chaotic good. So like I probably would my God see who happens you know you never know. 11:34.40 archaeoteacup Ah, just to see. Yeah. 11:40.99 Ashleigh Airey But then you might come back and like I don't know there is There's a film as well. That's about time travels nothing to do with archaeology they travel within their own timeline as well and which is was it one. Oh was that film. Well, there's like the time traveler's wife and stuff like that and they move back and forth. But there's. 11:47.75 archaeoteacup The. 11:55.30 archaeoteacup Right? as well. Yeah, yeah. 11:59.59 Ashleigh Airey I can't remember it's like a love story one. Oh man, it's going to really annoy me now and but basically he travels back and past his daughter's birth and then when he comes back spoiler don't even know what is there's like 1 love of it I can't remember um and. 12:12.86 archaeoteacup Spoiler This random thing that we yeah should yes yeah. 12:19.61 Ashleigh Airey Basically it turns it out that actually it's his it turns into a son. His daughter is no longer doesn't exist anymore and now he has a son and it's because he traveled past her birth and her like conception. So it means that it's completely changes time. Yeah. 12:34.62 archaeoteacup Ah, oh which yeah, which is this all other I mean that gets into all sorts of other ethical debates and everything right of like yeah probabilities of things and and yeah, what what would have changed and anyway. 12:38.10 Ashleigh Airey Yeah. 12:49.17 Ashleigh Airey Deckly. 12:51.39 archaeoteacup But and also them from an archeological perspective you you have this situation your you're in your office Your colleagues have come in with this big box looking pleased with themselves dumped it on your desk and said Ha look what we have here and start bringing out all kinds of objects as an archeologist and as a material specialist. What do you think would be. 13:10.43 Ashleigh Airey Um. 13:11.10 archaeoteacup Your approach to this particular scenario just sort of first additional thoughts shall we say. 13:14.77 Ashleigh Airey Oh my God What have you done? Why have you done that was the point where. 13:22.95 archaeoteacup Ah I mean fair. Yeah. 13:24.51 Ashleigh Airey I mean it changes the context of it. It changes the information you can get from it. There's other information you could get so I'd probably go through all the horrible the pessimistic stuff first and appear like well we now we can't date it properly. Um, we we don't know the. 13:35.87 archaeoteacup Are. 13:41.66 Ashleigh Airey We can look at well the one the the good things would be that you can really look at it and see how it was fully made depends on what the object is as well and so there would be no corrosion. There would probably if it was a pot It would be you know, nice and full. You wouldn't have to sit there and figure out which piece goes together. 13:46.74 archaeoteacup The true. 13:59.56 archaeoteacup Yeah. 14:00.72 Ashleigh Airey Um, and but you couldn't do the kind of more chemical analysis and stuff that would be really difficult to do I should imagine so I would go through all the terrible stuff first and then I tried to figure out what we can. What information we can get from an object. 14:16.20 archaeoteacup Ah, which indeed I hadn't even to be honest, consider that that idea of of removing it from the context because and you will have more experience of this is a kind of more experienced field Archeologist Ash that how important the context is to actually being able to interpret the objects. 14:27.58 Ashleigh Airey Absolutely yes, so I mean if you're finding an object within a certain context and a layer ah stra stratographic layer then it tells you more than what the object is going to tell you a lot of the time too. So It could be that you're in an organic layer. It could be that it's a settlement. Um, layer and then you're finding other stuff that's backing up so the charcoal what they were eating Maybe the seeds in there. Um, you know I'm just thinking prehistoric stuff because that's like yeah or you find like a big horde of something as Well. Um, and you're seeing the different ah cuts. 14:55.87 archaeoteacup Yeah I mean yeah yeah. 15:06.80 Ashleigh Airey Throughout that um feature too. So there could be like drift and there could be they they've cut a secondary pit into this pit for some reason and deposited something there so you're seeing layers of time over and over and over again. So if you if you've removed the object. From even creating that context in the first place say you you go back to um, Naples just before the first eruption of Vesuvius and you move a pot that was there at 1 point you know, um and you take it back to the future then that pot's not going to be there when you. 15:37.61 archaeoteacup Um. 15:42.59 Ashleigh Airey Excavate it. So we're not going to. We're going to lose that context. But then we've got other contexts in the fact that you've brought it back to the future. So now you can look at it as an object just an object rather than a larger complex of um, a settlement so it's quite interesting. 15:56.81 archaeoteacup But yeah, so you'd you'd have to make really detailed notes like when you were there so you almost you have the the context before it becomes a context if that faces. 16:01.76 Ashleigh Airey Yes, yes, yeah, you you would have to like basically do your archeological recording instead of ah on a site where you've taken away some layers you would you would have to do it on the site while someone's and presumably in the kitchen cooking I don't know. 16:15.70 archaeoteacup That. 16:21.65 Ashleigh Airey Ah, like and 1 of those ah street vendors like you know? Ah, yeah, yeah, there's graffiti that says such and such was here and there's this part here and yes, so that would be really difficult to try and tell someone who is you know from Naples or pompey. 16:21.92 archaeoteacup Yeah, the floor is made of this and this is the thing and there's someone eating a falafelex to me and I like yeah yeah, exactly. 16:39.71 Ashleigh Airey And why have I got this big camera you seen? Yeah, you'd be bubbles. So nobody could see you or bump into you be like oh what the hells that you know? yeah. 16:39.96 archaeoteacup The which again. So that's why you would need the bubble rather than yeah. 16:51.37 archaeoteacup Yeah, no, that's fair. That's fair, Well yeah I think that that's that's right? Well so hopefully your colleagues have indeed taken a lot of notes and that's actually at the bottom of the thing they're just so excited to show you these objects that they they forgot to show you the thick wads of paper and photographs and everything that they said as well. 17:05.65 Ashleigh Airey Okay, did you take any samples need some will about. 17:10.14 archaeoteacup But of course 1 issue. Well. This Apple but of course 1 issue is how much do you trust your colleagues. How do you know that these objects are a indeed from the past which will'll get into more detail that in a second let me just drop my consult my scrolls here and we'll be back with you soon.